# Talk

## how common is level 5 in year 4?

(31 Posts)
welcometomyworld2 Fri 07-Mar-14 10:09:39

Dd has just done some sat papers and got 4a for reading and maths. I know this is above average and I am always proud of her, but she was a bit disappointed as she said the 4 other children in her group sat a higher paper (level 5) and she didn't understand why she hadn't. How normal is it to be a level 5 in year 4?

Taffeta Fri 07-Mar-14 10:38:21

Depends on the cohort. I wouldn't guess that you would get an accurate picture on this MN board. Didn't you know all MN children are geniuses?

Taffeta Fri 07-Mar-14 10:43:20

....the other thing if am sure you know is that it's quite a different thing to sit a L5 paper and be working consistently at a Level 5.

ShanghaiDiva Fri 07-Mar-14 10:44:03

my son got a 5a in maths and was moved up to start the year 7 syllabus, but he was the only one in his class to achieve this. The results for your daugher's class sound exceptional.

Congratulations to your daughter on her excellent results!

It is all explained here, although watch out for the typo where it say 5a instead of 5c in the 1st column on the second page.

As you will see, achieving a level 5 in year 4 is exceptional (even by MN standards) meaning the top 1% of children nationally.

As to why your DD didn't get to do the level 5 paper, it will probably be to do with her score. Each sub level has a numerical score band (say 28 to 40 marks = L4a), her teacher probably had a cut off score and your DD must have scored below it, while the other children scored above it. It could also be that your DD scored better than her general class work indicated too I suppose. However the only way to find out is to ask the teacher why and if your DD feels upset then it might be worth finding out the explanation.

Maybe you should show your DD this table as well because she has done incredibly well and should be feeling absolutely chuffed with herself

Lonecatwithkitten Fri 07-Mar-14 10:53:12

It really depends on the cohort 7 children in DD's year 5 class last year got a level 6. They feed of each other and push each other foward.

Fri 07-Mar-14 11:10:41

It is pretty rare to get this in year 4.
well done

welcometomyworld2 Fri 07-Mar-14 11:13:21

Thanks so much for the replies. Dd is very lucky that she does not struggle with school work, but I know she doesn't realise that she is clever because she is in a class of such able dc which is probably good too. But when she is a bit concerned about only getting a 4a i do feel a bit sorry for her. TBH I don't really consider her that bright because it has always been fairly normal in her class.

Fri 07-Mar-14 11:40:14

OP, the average pass mark at year 6 is 4b, so she is already operating at a year 6 level.

BarbarianMum Fri 07-Mar-14 11:48:43

Maybe it's time to emphasise that she should just try her best and not worry about levels? I know school's are obsessed with them, but I don't think it's good for children to be.

BudsBeginingSpringinSight Fri 07-Mar-14 11:49:39

her school sounds fab, is it state or private?

welcometomyworld2 Fri 07-Mar-14 11:55:56

I totally agree about not being obsessed by levels and we never talk about them, but unfortunately they do at school. Recently her friend came to play and talked about them half the way home which is how i know about the recent sat tests.

It is a lovely school, but just a normal state primary rated good by Ofsted.

I have 4 children one of them managed a level 5 in year 4 the other 3 are all average or 1 behind in English. I suspect that this is a fairly normal average.
When my son sat papers in y 6 -last year only a few sat for level 6 about half level5 I do mot believe all managed the level 5. And this is for year 6 not 4

Iamnotminterested Fri 07-Mar-14 19:14:25

Agree that it depends on the cohort, some years are just brighter than others. DD1 wasn't level 5 until year 5, DD2 achieved it in year 4 but her year has more high achievers than DD1s and as a poster said her table are all similarly able and feed off each others enthusiasm.

Iamnotminterested Fri 07-Mar-14 19:18:38

Oh and OP wait until she gets to secondary school, everyone knows everyone else's levels cos they're read out in class!

sparklyma Fri 07-Mar-14 19:21:10

I'm a teacher and it really does depend on the cohort. Some years you won't get any achieving that in Y4. One year 5 class I had were amazing mathematicians. I had 28/30 get a 5A by the end of Y5. I doubt I'll see the likes of that again for many years! My spread at the moment is 2C-4A in reading and 2C-4B in Maths.

You should be proud of her but don't be enrolling her at genius academy just yet!

sparklyma Fri 07-Mar-14 19:22:42

Oh and I teach Y4 this year.

Jinsei Fri 07-Mar-14 19:43:02

Agree, it depends on the cohort. DD is in year 4. She has already been assessed as a level 5 for writing and reading, and is expected to be a 5 in maths before the end of the year. She isn't the only one in her class - there are around 6 or 7 of them all on around the same level, and others not too far behind. The teacher said she's never had a class quite like it. I think they probably all just spur each other on.

A level 5 paper sounds like an assertive mentoring paper.

They're very weird and they don't correlate very well with proper levels.

But if you score a certain amount on your prev assertive mentoring level 4 paper next time they give you a level 5 paper.

But it does not mean the teacher would say you are a level 5.

Soveryupset Sat 08-Mar-14 07:58:40

Hi,my dd1 is a 5c in maths in y4 but she is considered very good at maths even at her selective prep, although there are 2 children who are working slightly ahead.

We were told that it tends to ramp up in their school in year 5 as they are streamed for maths, ie put in different classes according to ability as opposed to groups.

youhavetogothroughit Sat 08-Mar-14 10:17:06

I think it is actually a lot more common than you would think but schools do not always test for it. We discovered that DS was a strong L6 in year 4, but only because the school had him take a particular paper that they have not always administered. In the other subjects they did not test to the ceiling.

DoItTooJulia Sat 08-Mar-14 10:26:19

My ds has been assessed as level 4 a in all areas in year 4 but the teacher said they don't test for level 5. So my son has exceeded his target for the year already, with no opportunity to move up a level until next academic year.

There are 3 other kids in the year with similar levels.

Teacher gave me the press ion that it's unusual and that she ha d more children in a level 2 than 4, let alone 5. O

Jinsei Sat 08-Mar-14 18:06:15

But surely testing is only one part of the picture? Even if schools don't test for level 5 (or above), what about the teacher assessments?

Iamnotminterested Sat 08-Mar-14 18:13:59

Good point. Teachers are continually assessing children, in every lesson of every day.

DoItTooJulia Sat 08-Mar-14 18:22:32

Yes, but the teacher had a print out of all of the levels for all of the kids in her class. When we discussed that he had already met his target for the year and whether he could be achieving a level 5 she said that they don't test for it, so no.

The teacher didn't mention continual assessments. We know ds is bright, the levels are something that the school have introduced to me as a parent and I find it difficult to fathom or to attach any meaning to them when there is an end point that can't be surpassed.

So I think it is difficult for parents to figure out how common a level 5 is in year 4.

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