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Survey on primary working hours - are you happy that the word is out?

(61 Posts)
pointythings Fri 28-Feb-14 18:26:28

article in today's Guardian

A survey conducted by the DfE says it's official - primary teachers work stupidly long hours. Does anyone here think the teacher bashing is now going to stop?

Euphemia Fri 28-Feb-14 18:45:54

No, because we spend all day with delightful children who do no wrong, read lovely stories and play with playdough. We get to wear pretty clothes, nice shoes and we're always smiling when parents see us.

We get paid lots of money and have long holidays.

Or something.

hmm

grin

clam Fri 28-Feb-14 18:52:03

But it's not the "real world" though, is it?

wink

Euphemia Fri 28-Feb-14 21:08:52

No, it's a laughter-filled little bubble. smile

pointythings Fri 28-Feb-14 21:13:15

Given that the real world is where Michael Gove lives, would you like to join him?

(Am not a teacher, but I am a parent who appreciates teachers)

I'm going to hang on to this article and post it into every 'AIBU to think teachers should not strike/complain/be enemies of promise because they have it so easy?' thread.

mrz Fri 28-Feb-14 22:22:32

get ready for the 27th wink

clam Sat 01-Mar-14 10:15:34

Don't you just love the way newspaper editors pick such lovely photos of Gove? Is there a decent picture of him anywhere?

Feenie Sat 01-Mar-14 11:37:27

Thanks, pointythings! thanks

pointythings Sat 01-Mar-14 13:44:12

mrz what happens on the 27th?

<agog>

pussycatdoll Sat 01-Mar-14 13:46:40

Another strike ? grin

Feenie Sat 01-Mar-14 13:46:55

There's a strike planned for Wednesday 26th March wink

pussycatdoll Sat 01-Mar-14 13:51:09

Our school never closes when there's a strike
No classes close either
It's very odd

Ilikepinkwine Sat 01-Mar-14 13:58:42

I often wonder what would happen if we all resigned on the same day...
smile

clam Sat 01-Mar-14 13:59:04

It depends which Union is striking, pussycatdoll. There are a few. Plus, it may just be that the relevant teachers have elected not to do so in the past, although that doesn't mean they might not decide to do so this time.

Sparkle9 Sat 01-Mar-14 14:07:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pointythings Sat 01-Mar-14 14:56:11

I support the right of any teacher to strike against all the shit the idiot Gove is pulling. Simple as that.

noblegiraffe Sat 01-Mar-14 18:49:46

Why are the articles all about primary when secondary teachers work nearly as many hours? Or is 56 hours a week considered acceptable? confused

mrz Sat 01-Mar-14 19:34:14

because it was a survey of primary teacher's workload?

noblegiraffe Sat 01-Mar-14 19:55:14

No, it was a survey of teachers' workload, the results were broken down into primary (59 hours) secondary (56 hours) and heads (63 hours).

noblegiraffe Sat 01-Mar-14 20:01:27

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/285941/DFE-RR316.pdf

That's the full survey. I really don't understand the overwhelming focus on primary.

mrz Sat 01-Mar-14 20:08:28

perhaps they've just discovered primary teachers exist hmm

AryaUnderfoot Sat 01-Mar-14 20:20:59

The focus on primary teachers is because they work '60' hours a week instead of '50-something'. A number with 6 in front of it sounds so much bigger than a number with 5.

After all, everyone in the 'real world' works 50-something hours a week and only gets 25 days' annual leave. wink

OddBoots Sat 01-Mar-14 20:27:36

If anyone is interested there is something you may fill in if you want to register your support of teachers.

pointythings Sat 01-Mar-14 20:30:29

Signed, OddBoots and following the FB page too. Thanks!

PastSellByDate Sat 01-Mar-14 21:12:10

pointythings:

I get your point - 60 hour week is long hours - but

ask a doctor or GP

ask a nurse or midwife

ask a University lecturer

ask anyone...

moreover - whereas many of us work these hours incessently - we do witness that teachers have breaks every 6-7 weeks of at least 1 week or 2 weeks + a long spell (6-7 weeks) over July/ August/ sometimes Early September. Many in other professions don't have that luxury of downtime (even though I know many teachers use half-terms/ Christmas vacations to catch up, prepare materials, etc...) - nevertheless most of us don't have points in our jobs when the face to face work load disappears and you can deal with backlog uninterrupted. We also certainly don't get 5 days + a year of training.

The reality is Britain has a long hour work culture - and presentee-ism means that many don't feel it's possible to have even a sick day when they've got a foul cold.

Do I think teachers work hard - absolutely.

Do I think teachers work effectively - debateable.

Do I think teachers don't effectively explain or indeed share 'gathered' data with parents thereby doing work which remains total invisible to the end user (the pupil/ concerned parent) - YES. And I suspect therein lise the problem ....

Good example - DD2 has transfered to another school. New school quite legitimately requested transcript for DD2. Old school declined to do so - but would send through KS1 SATs results.

Now let's talk time wastage:

1) All the time old school spent recording progress of DD2 on whatever progress tracking programme they were using

2) All the time new school spent ringing old school/ teacher trying to get some background information on DD2

3) All the time new school has spent retesting DD2 and discussing where to place her within groups (sets) of students

4) All the time new school will spend filling in the blank of her non-existent transcript.

This doens't affect me at all as a parent and new school has been brilliant with DD2 - spending a great deal of time sorting out where she's at.

But don't bash parents for thinking teachers work ineffectively/ inefficiently - if you behave this way to each other (which let's face it in this instance is downright unprofessional) - just as an external observer - I've got to wonder whether you can focus on core learning for pupils.

I suspect a great deal of energy is expended producing the statistics to ensure expected progress/ exceeding expected progress to justify increments - and indeed that effort (thought totally understandable) has nil benefit for learning as far as the pupil is concerned.

I also know that these ridiculous end of year novels which whitter on about how darling Geoffrey enjoyed exploring movement through dance last term - and avoid any sort of efficient conveying of achievement relative to school and/or national standards - must eat huge amounts of your time. Yes they establish that you're aware my child is in your class - but often you've just cut and pasted information from your first report - thus I receive a report informating me my child enjoyed a field trip thorough - wonderful but unfortunatley she didn't attend this wonderful trip because she was off with chicken pox.

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