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Advice about my 8 year old's behaviour

(24 Posts)
123xyz Sun 09-Feb-14 19:45:18

My ds has (up until this term) always been very well behaved and regularly awarded at school for his behaviour.

His school have introduced this term whole class punishments, so rather than an individual child or children being reprimanded the class as a whole is now punished.

I was wary of this approach when I heard it as it doesn't seem to be tackling the problem but thought I would give it a chance. I did not mention any concerns to my ds or anyone else.

My ds was v concerned about it and I said you can only control your behaviour as long as you continue how you are then that is all you can do.

Now 5 weeks on in my opinion it's a disaster, after my ds received (along with rest of the class of course) a number of group punishments he's gone for the if you can't beat 'em join 'em approach, ie if going to be punished for talking in line he's talking in line. But he's disgusted with himself he's the one who's told me this is happening, I've heard nothing from school.

How can I help him? He doesn't want to be naughty but he hates the injustice of being punished when good.

BeerTricksPotter Sun 09-Feb-14 19:55:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clam Sun 09-Feb-14 19:56:56

Well, I've been teaching now for 27 years and this sounds like a shit idea. I think it would be worth having a word with the Head and asking for the rationale behind it, as I can't think of any. He/she'll probably trot out some lame nonsense about group responsibility and the "good" ones bringing their influence to bear on the others but, as you're seeing for yourself, it's spectacularly back-firing.
There are a hundred better ways of changing the behaviour of a class.

clam Sun 09-Feb-14 19:58:13

Don't bother with the class teacher - go straight to the Head if it's a whole-school policy.


nonicknameseemsavailable Sun 09-Feb-14 20:39:30

we have an issue with whole class punishment in that some children in my daughter's class (her included) are terrified of getting into trouble for something they haven't done because they are children who are never naughty and they are upset and scared about going into school in case they get told off just for being in the classroom basically.

clam Sun 09-Feb-14 20:45:41

And there are a fair few children who will revel in the fact that their poor behaviour lands everyone else in trouble too. It gives them an unhealthy feeling of power.
Bad idea on every level.

tethersend Sun 09-Feb-14 20:46:47

Whole class punishments are ineffective at best- more usually, they simply alienate the child with behaviour problems further from their peers, thus exacerbating the problem.

It's a lazy and stupid way if managing behaviour, and it makes me very angry.

Is it a community school?

MissBattleaxe Sun 09-Feb-14 20:48:40

Ridiculously bad idea. It boils down to punishing good kids for being good.

practicallyperfectornot Sun 09-Feb-14 20:49:08

Oh dear DS's school did this in KS1. Unfortunately due to DS's difficulties he was the one causing the whole class punishments, within the first few months of the school year he had no friends and was constantly used as a scapegoat when others were miss behaving. I never agreed with it either but the CT spouted some rubbish (I was so naive back then-I hadn't even got a clue that schools had so many policies blush) which was then backed up by HT.

I saw it as encouraging bullying in my DS's defence but I could see why it was happening and I felt awful for the other DC sad

Speak to the HT.

MissBattleaxe Sun 09-Feb-14 20:52:09

good point made by practically perfect. It can also encourage bullying and blame of the child who has misbehaved.

sittingbythepoolwithenzo Sun 09-Feb-14 21:07:45

Wrong on every level. I have a child who is terrified of breaking rules. A whole class punishment send him into a panic attack. Thankfully, our school are aware and have stopped even hinting at them - or if the whole class need to be spoken too, the teacher keeps eye contact with ds so he can keep an eye.

You need to raise this with the Head.

tethersend Sun 09-Feb-14 21:13:34

This actually makes me very angry, especially as it's a whole school policy.

I'm an advisory teacher for looked after children, and if a child I was working with was subject to this policy, I'd be having SERIOUS words with the head. This can compound the anxiety and rejection felt by trauma experienced children, particularly if their trauma means they exhibit challenging behaviour.

This of course is in addition to the negative effects the policy has on every other child in the class.

SlightlyTerrified Mon 10-Feb-14 11:44:27

We are having the same problems. Again a whole school policy but 1 or 2 children causing the punishment every time in DSs class. I understand they are a 'team' etc but it is clearly not working as the 2 boys are still misbehaving regularly but the school are fairly certain it will work and is fine.

Other than this the school is fab so I have no idea what to do but if it carries on I will write to the HT I think.

lottieandmia Mon 10-Feb-14 11:47:47

I don't blame him either. What kind of a school implements something so unfair as this?? As far as he is concerned he may as well misbehave because there is no point at all in being good.

Unless you can get the school to climb down from this ridiculous position which is causing increased bad behaviour from children who were previously well behaved then I would move him to another school. This is bound to be affecting his learning IMHO.

practicallyperfectornot Mon 10-Feb-14 12:03:35

I see it this way, if 2 children are always the cause of the punishments (and this was exactly how I felt with DS) then those 2 DC need more individually focused behavioral intervention because they are clearly lacking the skills to behave appropriately. These skills may not come naturally to some DC and need to be taught. It really is a lazy approach, just imagine if this happened in the work place shock when your colleague constantly slacked and they decided to dock every ones wages to teach that person a lesson. Just imagine the uproar...........

lottieandmia Mon 10-Feb-14 12:11:41

Quite, practically perfect.

SlightlyTerrified Mon 10-Feb-14 12:13:48

You are so right, one of the children is being tested for various things, aspergers is one of them and the other just doesn't seem to respond to anything. I think they are running out of ideas really but have several complaints a week by the other parents about him.

The main issue seems to be when they are lining up to go inside after break, the child will mess around so then they all have to just line up outside at the next break time whilst the other classes play. To me, it probably doesn't bother this boy as none of his friends get to play either but surely if only he was made to line up on his own then that would have a much bigger influence?

higherhill Mon 10-Feb-14 12:28:44

Why do teachers persist with something that isn't working? Situations like this baffle me, the total lack of initiative and willingness to address problems properly. very lazy response and surely they can think of other ways of getting these 2 more challenging boys to line up without taking it out on the rest of the class.

SlightlyTerrified Mon 10-Feb-14 12:37:25

I think they are doing a lot of work in other situations with these two boys that seems to be helping (slowly) but the school policy regarding the class punishment relates to lining up to go into school after break time. I agree it is lazy and clearly not working.

I am keeping an eye on it as I do think 7 YO boys needs to be running around at break time and not just lining up watching the others, the DCs are getting extremely fed up also! Parents have complained so I am hoping they are mindful of it going forward.

They were doing letter writing practice in class and they had to write a letter to the Head of Juniors about anything they wanted. DS1 wrote to say why he thought it was unfair they had to stay in at break time and that they needed exercise, fresh air and vitamin D. He asked her to reconsider her decision. It made me laugh as it was displayed up on the class work board!

BistoBear Mon 10-Feb-14 12:38:18

In flabbergasted that a school would adopt group punishments! The military banned group punishments as they breed resentment and can lead to the person causing the group punishment being bullied.

lottieandmia Mon 10-Feb-14 12:40:43

ST - what a lovely, inclusive school that sounds(!) So they are trying to isolate a boy who has ASD from his peers, when what he probably most needs is a statement and some understanding from those around him. If I were his parents I would be quoting the disability discrimination act at the school...

SlightlyTerrified Mon 10-Feb-14 12:49:21

Sorry, I have not explained well, the main child I was talking about does not have ASD.

The boy with suspected ASD is not the main culprit of the playground behaviour, his behaviour is mainly in the classroom but this does have a huge affect on the other boys as they can't differenciate necessarily from the boy with possible ASD and the boys who is just badly behaved. The work they are doing with this boy is pretty good from what I have seen but the other boys are struggling as they see bad behaviour from 2 children which causes problems in the class in general. ASD has not been discussed with the class of course yet. I only mentioned it as part of the whole 'story' with regards to behaviour.

They are actually a very nurturing and inclusive school, I don't think I have explained very well really but this one issue is a huge problem IMO and I am hoping it can be sorted soon.

lottieandmia Mon 10-Feb-14 16:51:07

Yes but a child with ASD is not 'badly behaved'. ASD is a very disabling condition even when the person seems to be high functioning. People with ASD don't think like NT people. Maybe I misunderstood your post but I had thought you were saying that the school had implemented these punishments because one of the boys with suspected Aspergers was misbehaving?

SlightlyTerrified Mon 10-Feb-14 17:36:41

Sorry no I did not mean that, I rushed my post and did not explain very well.

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