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Calling all SENCOs, how do you think the action short of strike could affect provision for children with SEN?

(105 Posts)
daftdame Sat 13-Jul-13 21:54:52

Just this really. Following on from another thread that mentioned the action I am concerned about the knock on effects for children with SEN. Only being 'allowed' to report annually does not work for this group of children. Progress needs to be closely monitored and shared with parents along with other bodies. Annual reviews, along with end of year reports, along with meetings with SALT for example. All this requires teacher input. All in accordance with SEN CoP.

StarlightMcKenzie Mon 15-Jul-13 17:48:04

My dd's nursery teacher works until 7:30pm every night. I know because she walks past my house or I suppose she could be on her way home from a nearby pub.

StarlightMcKenzie Mon 15-Jul-13 17:50:00

Blimey Mrz, though those people aren't that usual for a typical AR!?

No-one outside the school comes to ds' except a SEN admin person every now and then.

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 17:54:26

They are for our pupils Starlight ... all professional involved with a child are invited to provide input.

StarlightMcKenzie Mon 15-Jul-13 18:07:32

Well I hope they all have key admin workers then.

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 18:15:33

No Key workers in my area either

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 18:16:10

just demonstrates the difference from LEA to LEA

StarlightMcKenzie Mon 15-Jul-13 18:22:29

Yes. In the two areas I have lived, the professionals all discharge you asap and never come to any meetings ever.

Key workers make it clear that your child is the last person on earth they want to be a key worker for (though to be fair I did create a lot of work, only asking questions and challenging unlawful practice but I don't particularly blame the keyworkers for passing us on regularly until I told them I'd do the job).

Can their parents do it?

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 18:23:18

I also don't think 'standard phrase' from a 'comments bank' will necessarily have the range needed to adequately describe progress for a child with SEN.

How can it? By the very definition of SEN, the progression is not as expected in terms the norm but somehow different, hence the Special when referring to needs.

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 18:26:12

And what is the 'agreed assessment system'? Might not suit the particular child with SEN...

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 18:35:11

We just don't have such a thing as key workers Starlight ... children have highly qualified SEN support assistants

float62 Mon 15-Jul-13 18:48:32

It all differs from LEA to LEA, school to school, head to head, SENCO to SENCO, across the board. Personally, even as a parent of an SN DS, I would support any strike action if it was solely about reducing the huge amount of unnecessary target-led paperwork that schools, and mostly teachers, have to waste their time completing. Most of it not only does nothing except create a paint-by-numbers picture with little relevance to reality but wastes important teacher energy and teaching time. I'm sure there's a better way to achieve what needs to be achieved than the current approach. I have had some excellent support from CAMHS in one place and less but not bad in another. I've come across some amazing SENCOs but they have been overruled by some right dickhead HTs. Sorry mrsz but I've come across some appalling SENCOs too. daftdame not wanting to worry you but be prepared in the future for employment disruption as there might be quite a few meetings to go to. An SN child's education can take over every aspect of a parent's life if it doesn't go well. Some teachers on MN are no longer teaching because they had to give up work for their own SN child's education.

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 18:59:43

I understand that only too well float that is why I think some understanding should be given to parents who make a request regarding a meeting time. It does not stem from expecting everyone to 'sing to their tune'.

I do think though 'working to rule' is not a good mindset, especially regarding SEN. Nothing works according to the rules regarding SEN, that is the point. I suspect, as usual, this kind of practise results in the most vulnerable suffering.

Equally an overly prescriptive curriculum and the resulting paperwork, is not any good either. However the action, which is been take to remedy this, could cause just as much harm, if followed through to the letter.

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 19:04:16

It's OK float I've met some atrocious SENCOs and EPs as a parent of a SEN child and as a teacher.

juniper9 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:12:42

daftdame that segment of the nasuwt document refers to parents' evenings.

Like I said earlier, nasuwt have been supporting this action since 1st dec 2011. If you haven't noticed any difference by now, then I guess you're unlikely to.

Nothing in my school has changed in the slightest.

float62 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:20:17

daft Ok I do see what you're saying about the possible harm but I'm of the mind that I'd like to see some real backbone and standing up for the mind-numbing, crushing and potentially harmful effect of paperwork per se in education (and other trades and professions too) not mixed up with pay and conditions. FGS a teacher probably spends as much time as proving a learning outcome for a 20min segment of teaching (a requirement I believe) as actually teaching the darn thing. And I won't be offended by any testiness on your part because I understand too well how demented we can become for a time when we're dealing with these situations. And I do agree with you that the request to meet after work in the evening should be met with understanding, but I've found in the past that the idea that a parent might have other important responsibilities too has been met with a bit of disdain.

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 19:21:56

Added to this I think the 'working to rule' could possibly divert attention away from some relatively simple practical solutions which might go some way to alleviating a child's difficulties at school immediately.

Instead the focus moves to on 'I should not have to deal with this' or 'I cannot possibly deal with this', 'This is not part of my job description'. This could be when dealing with a child for example who needs to be reminded at each break to go to the toilet (never mind that accidents are very infrequent if this happens) or who needs to be reminded to put sun cream on, as per previous threads.

Much song and dance is made and parents are left wondering what on earth they can do.

Panzee Mon 15-Jul-13 19:24:10

You'll find that most of the working to rule involves not doing pointless admin and paperwork, not about avoiding doing their best for ech child.

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 19:31:28

juniper There would have to be some really good research that would actually prove a link. However I don't really think the 'working to rule' mindset is good in any profession.

A profession is given its status due to the fact that it can't be done by one particular simple rulebook, consideration and usually consultation has to be employed in each case.

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 19:35:18

^ Anything that restricts the consideration and consultation is bad.

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 19:42:43

Working to rule will not effect children will not stop teachers teaching will mean those involved will not photocopy or file or put up displays (but then they aren't supposed to be doing those things in the first place) Lots of schools work that way day in and day out, week in and week out year after year without it having any impact on pupils ...

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 19:50:48

When refusing to make concessions regarding simple solutions eg when a request is made to remind a child to put on sun cream the cry is that any 'normal' child can do this by this age. If they have no diagnosed SN no one sees why concessions should be made.

Never mind that diagnosis can take some time or that the problem can be alleviated quite simply and practically if concessions were made. Or that once concessions are made a child might actually learn from being reminded or helped and take responsibility for a task themselves.

In this way, I think the 'this is beyond my job description' way of thinking, could actually seek to aggravate and magnify some kinds of difficulty, which may actually be solved before they come to light.

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 19:52:54

mrz Instead the TAs designated to support SEN children are given the photocopying and displays to put up. They spend their time doing this rather than supporting thus distorting a child's actual SEN, as the support is there on paper.

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 19:53:11

That has nothing whatsoever to do with working to rule daftdame

daftdame Mon 15-Jul-13 19:55:53

mrz It sort of has, indirectly. These non teaching tasks are not shared and someone has to pick up the slack somewhere.

mrz Mon 15-Jul-13 20:05:09

Telling a child to put on sun cream isn't one of the 24 tasks teachers are not required to do therefore would not be part of working to rule.

1.Collecting money;
2.Chasing absences – teachers will need to inform the relevant member of staff when students are absent from their class or from school;
3.Bulk photocopying;
4.Copy typing;
5.Producing standard letters – teachers may be required to contribute as appropriate in formulating the content of standard letters;
6.Producing class lists – teachers may be required to be involved as appropriate in allocating students to a particular class;
7.Record keeping and filing – teachers may be required to contribute to the content of records;
8.Classroom display – teachers will make professional decisions in determining what material is displayed in and around their classroom;
9.Analysing attendance figures – it is for teachers to make use of the outcome of analysis;
10.Processing exam results – teachers will need to use the analysis of exam results;
11.Collating pupil reports;
12.Administering work experience – teachers may be required to support pupils on work experience (including through advice and visits);
13.Administering examinations – teachers have a professional responsibility for identifying appropriate examinations for their pupils;
14.Administering teacher cover;
15.ICT trouble shooting and minor repairs;
16.Commissioning new ICT equipment;
17.Ordering supplies and equipment – teachers may be involved in identifying needs;
19.Cataloguing, preparing, issuing and maintaining equipment and materials;
20.Minuting meetings – teachers may be required to communicate action points from meetings;
21.Co-ordinating and submitting bids –teachers may be required to make a professional input into the content of bids;
22.Seeking and giving personnel advice;
23.Managing pupil data – teachers will need to make use of the analysis of pupil data;
24.Inputting pupil data – teachers will need to make the initial entry of pupil data into school management systems

nothing at all that impacts on teacher pupil interactions of any kind

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