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Tough new tests for children at 5 and 11?

(62 Posts)
mrz Mon 08-Jul-13 06:54:25

LunaticFringe Mon 08-Jul-13 19:39:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blissx Mon 08-Jul-13 18:59:18

We're a sensitive bunch us teachers!wink LunaticFringe, I graduated in 2002. MrButtercat, don't mind me and my anecdotal 'evidence', just thought I'd add it to point out there are some improvements being made.

With regards to the concern over the skills of Primary Teachers, there are a few groups including Computing at Schools network already supporting Primary Teachers and Primary Teachers are a resourceful bunch and will work hard to support pupils in the right way, of that I have no doubt. Being used to frequent govt. changes and having to adapt at a moments notice is a skill teachers have become adept in. What does worry me is how quickly and haphazardly this new curriculum has been put together and by whom. More industry bods have been involved than teachers and I worry the pedagogy hasn't matched up.

Tiggles Mon 08-Jul-13 15:28:03

MrBC grin.

Also, when they say age 5 they mean year 1 so 5-6, rather than reception 4-5. I had assumed when the media were saying 'first time fractions ever taught at age 5' they meant reception, as they are definitely in the Welsh framework for year 1 (and we tend to be behind England). The fraction stuff seems pretty much what DS2 is doing at the moment e.g. what is 1/2 of 6 he'd be happy to tell you (and he isn't G&T) not sure if he would know how to write it though.

OhYouBadBadKitten Mon 08-Jul-13 15:25:36

link to framework document

hope that helps confused

MrButtercat Mon 08-Jul-13 15:23:57

Let's hope the IT bods doing the gov site aren't the same people advising Gove.grin

LunaticFringe Mon 08-Jul-13 15:21:00

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LunaticFringe Mon 08-Jul-13 15:20:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AuntieStella Mon 08-Jul-13 15:16:35

Even though the link I posted is to DfEd (not both those links are several clicks away from the proposal documents, and those docs are not clearly titled. And the actual outline curriculum is another click from the proposal document.

Dreadfully shambolic.

Tiggles Mon 08-Jul-13 15:14:50

Well having read the computing proposals by the end of KS1 and 2 I was rather confused and hmm. But having read KS3 I think that actually what they will be expected to do at KS1 and 2 is not so bad. e.g when they say 2+ languages at KS3 they quantify that only one must be textual. Presumably then at KS1/2 none are textual so they are only looking at drag and drop technology eg scratch, rather than 'real' programming and debugging. In terms of things like converting decimal to binary, we learnt that at primary and is useful, especially if you are going to program microcontrollers.

OhYouBadBadKitten Mon 08-Jul-13 15:13:22

all of the .gov sites have become hideous to navigate and half them have vanished as departments amalgamate with no clue as to where to find the info any more.

AuntieStella Mon 08-Jul-13 15:10:37

X-post (yes, it did take that long to navigate DfEd site!)

AuntieStella Mon 08-Jul-13 15:09:31

I think this is what they are talking about today But the website is awkward to navigate (anyone else noticed how much worse they've become across the board in the last month or so?)

And it appears that the consultation actually runs until August. So still time to chip in.

Tiggles Mon 08-Jul-13 15:03:59

Thanks kitten

OhYouBadBadKitten Mon 08-Jul-13 15:00:50

consulation is here

runs to Aug 8th.

Tiggles Mon 08-Jul-13 14:53:24

The company I first worked for, the first projects I worked on were 'merely' testing code for safety critical projects. The skills and thoroughness developed through this, where not a single error could be left undetected (think RAF fighter jet crashing if code wrong, or power station blowing up), were exceptionally useful. Through studying code for many months before writing any of my own I learnt a lot of best practice.
Once 'let loose' to write my own code, we were told the day before "On your way home buy a book on X programming language" you will be expected to code in it tomorrow. Learning the language syntax is the easy part, it is the intricacies of good design which are way more important (in my opinion grin).

MrButtercat Mon 08-Jul-13 14:47:33

Yes,guess you're right.Dp does seem to be one of those with a natural aptitude who can learn any new code.That said he is very good at maths has an engineering degree,Msc in computer science etc.Scarily he loves it.hmm

I know all the training in the world wouldn't enable me to produce one word of code.grin

Wonder what they do in India etc.Having said that dp has had quality issues with outsourced code so maybe they don't have all the answers.

LunaticFringe Mon 08-Jul-13 14:40:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrButtercat Mon 08-Jul-13 14:32:34

I guess but there is never time(or money at the mo)for training is there.Dp has often had to train himself in his own time. The reason they seem to be beholden to contractors (paid silly money and not always that great) is because they need the expertise instantly not a year ahead.

The bosses higher up say what they want and pluck deadlines out of the air- you have to provide it.

Maybe this curriculum will help but not sure how they're going to provide the expertise or resources.

MirandaWest Mon 08-Jul-13 14:28:31

Is there a link to the new curriculum (coding and other aspects)?

LunaticFringe Mon 08-Jul-13 14:24:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrButtercat Mon 08-Jul-13 14:11:51

I think we pointed out a long way down we weren't teacher bashing re IT.

MrButtercat Mon 08-Jul-13 14:10:54

What Little said

Bliss I hate to say it but sadly I doubt your 16 year olds could code good enough for most firms with billions reliant on said code.My dp is a rarity(a manager who is a damn good coder) and he struggles at times to get tech people good enough and who can produce good enough work in the time needed.

I think the gov may be under estimating the level of expertise needed to teach this stuff at the higher end and indeed primary with the more able.

LunaticFringe Mon 08-Jul-13 14:07:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tiggles Mon 08-Jul-13 14:04:50

Not an IT teacher bashing thread at all smile. Merely concern that many schools do not have the facilities to teach 'several languages' and programming in general at primary level. I know several primary teachers who give the impression they are not really very confident with maths, I am concerned if they also had to learn and teach programming.
With a confident teacher I would be very happy for all my children to learn programming in school, but to only give a year for all schools to become competent in an area where there has been little need before, seems to be a government run before you can walk initiative.

weirdthing Mon 08-Jul-13 14:02:05

Blissx - my Dh works in IT - we home educate and he is teaching our sons IT exactly as you have said. My friend's DH has a Phd in programming and used to earn shit-loads of money (they also home ed) and he too agrees on knowing how the computer works.thinks before learning to program. Our kids are all 3-7 and know how computers work, have taken them apart and are learning basic programming alongside how computers think. My son's ex-classmates are doing cut and paste!

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