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Key Stage 2 appeal

(15 Posts)
quickappealquestion Fri 28-Jun-13 10:14:36

Hello, I've named changed for this, as I'm asking for a friend.

Briefly, single form entry Catholic Primary school, admissions are dealt by governing body. Classes of 30. Parent is appealing for an in year application to Key Stage 2 class (has younger child in school).

We're looking at this from point of view of Governing Body - attitude has always been that generally no child admitted where class size would be over 30, including Key Stage 2. They have a waiting list, and don't want to open flood gates. Not a case where child has statement etc.

Are they right to do this? Thanks!

tiggytape Fri 28-Jun-13 10:33:53

Yes they are allowed to keep their class sizes at 30 and not offer places from the waiting list to take the class over 30.

If a child had a statement naming the school, they would have to take that child.

Appeals are different though and independent of the school.
If a child goes to appeal for a KS2 place, the school will no doubt challenge the appeal and say they are full / lack resources to cope with more children but if the parents' case is stronger, the parents will win and the school will be forced to admit them.

quickappealquestion Fri 28-Jun-13 10:48:33

Thanks. So, it's just down to the appeal panel at the time? School say "No", and panel decide whether the parents' case is stronger.

If the Governing Body state that their starting point is always that they do not admit over 30 (not including statement), then this would not be unreasonable?

prh47bridge Fri 28-Jun-13 10:59:42

Absolutely. That is what appeals are for.

I would expect the school's case to say that they only admit 30 and that they can't possibly admit any more. They should only admit beyond the admission number in limited circumstances. They certainly shouldn't do so just because they feel like it. If you win your appeal they will have to admit your child.

lougle Fri 28-Jun-13 11:07:08

I agree with both tiggy and prh.

The fact that this isn't an Infant Class Size appeal means that the case will come down entirely to prejudice - whether it is worse for the school to have to take the child than for the child to be denied the place.

Your friend will need to have very strong reasons why this school is the best school for her DS.

She should not discuss why other schools would be 'bad', she needs to turn any views like that into statements about why this school would be good.

lougle Fri 28-Jun-13 11:07:52

"If the Governing Body state that their starting point is always that they do not admit over 30 (not including statement), then this would not be unreasonable?"

That is fine for them to say. It doesn't mean they won't have to take child 31 if the panel tells them to.

quickappealquestion Fri 28-Jun-13 11:24:53

Thank you all. Very helpful.

In this case, the Appeal Panel is made up of members of the Governing Body, and they generally hold the view that 30 is the maximum class size.

I will pass this onto my friend. Back to my usual user name nowsmile

tiggytape Fri 28-Jun-13 11:28:54

The appeal panel is required to be independent - the names of the panel members should be communicated to the parents in advance so parents can be satisifed of this.

lougle Fri 28-Jun-13 11:34:42

Members of the Governing Body are specifically excluded from being on the appeals panel by the Admissions Appeals Code 2012:

"1.7. The School Admissions (Appeal Arrangements) (England) Regulations 2012 disqualify certain people from membership of an appeal panel. The clerk to the panel must not allow a disqualified person to be a member of a panel. A person is disqualified if they are:
a) a member of the local authority which is the admission authority or in whose area the school in question is located;
b) a member or former member of the governing body of the school in question;
c) employed by the local authority or governing body of the school in question, other than as a teacher or teaching assistant4;
d) any person who has, or at any time has had, any connection with the authority,school or any person in sub-paragraph c) above which might reasonably be taken to raise doubts about that person’s ability to act impartially;
e) any person who has not attended training required by the admission authority arranging the appeal panel."

Your friend needs to challenge this if it turns out to be true.

quickappealquestion Fri 28-Jun-13 11:38:51

Ah, now that is helpful! Will point her in the right direction here.

fenellaf Fri 28-Jun-13 22:30:20

If they live in catchment and appeal, chances are they will get in. I had a class of 30 in year 2. Two more children moved into the area and they were told there were no places in Y2 and they got in on appeal. Basically, the school is full when it gets to fire regulations numbers. Ours is 210, but as long as the school numbers are below 210, the likelihood is that a child will get in on appeal irrespective of actual class sizes.

tiggytape Fri 28-Jun-13 22:37:03

It shouldn't be possible for children to win a Year 2 appeal for a class of 30 no matter where they live. This is because the law about class sizes applies to Year R - Year 2
However there is something called FAC which is an emergency measure forcing councils and schools to breach the class size limit when literally no other school in the entire area has a place spare.
Or it might have been near the end of Year 2 and they got a sympathetic panel who bent the rules.
Or their applications / waiting list positions suffered errors so they won because of maladministration (virtually the only way to win an ICS appeal).

For Year 3 and above the class size laws don't apply so it becomes easier to win at appeal. Parents still need to make their case though - it isn't automatic by any means.

fenellaf Fri 28-Jun-13 23:40:49

Well my class definitely has 32 in it and there is another school about a mile and a half - 2 miles down the road which has places in year 2.

tiggytape Fri 28-Jun-13 23:47:44

Maybe a sympathetic panel then?
I am not doubting you at all fenella - it does happen. Its just not supposed to happen except if the children are statemented or the victim of a council admin error (which is also a possibility). The class size rules in Yr2 are ^supposed to be rigid

Myliferocks Fri 28-Jun-13 23:53:57

The infants my DC attended always had classes over 30 when the school 2 miles away had spaces.
Some years they started in September with over 30 and other years they went over 30 during the year, all while the other school had places.

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