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SATS question (but no boasting!)

(23 Posts)
SuedeEffectPochette Thu 16-May-13 22:07:56

I understand that the aim is for children to leave year 6 with a Level 4. But there are subdivsions within grades (a,b, and c) so when a school says that they have 100% at level 4, say, do they mean 100% at level 4b (average) or at any level 4. If my child leaves school in year 6 with a level 4c are they below average?

BabiesAreLikeBuses Thu 16-May-13 22:11:22

When schools report level 4 they mean all shades of it, a, b and c. Guidelines show 4b as national average so yes, 4c would be one sublevel below. Hope that helps.

Pozzled Thu 16-May-13 22:15:15

As Babieslikebuses says. Level 4c is a little low for leaving year 6.

dipdabdo Thu 16-May-13 22:34:22

but level 4 isn't average because only 1/5th of all children get lower than a 4.

simpson Thu 16-May-13 22:57:26

Level 4b is not average but the expected level for a yr6 child.

I would have thought 100% at level 4 would be 4a and working towards a level 5 (c).

BabiesAreLikeBuses Thu 16-May-13 23:07:24

No, 100% at level 4 could be 100% 4c. The government aren't so bothered about sub levels, it improves statistics to generalise hmm and 4c isn't lower than a 4... Some get l5 and 6 at primary. More important really is what support is given to a child below 4b and what subject it is in - some children get lower scores in writing but a good reading score bumps it up and one english level reported

CalicoRose Fri 17-May-13 05:02:20

If you look at stats you will see that only (approx) 50% of kids who get a level 4 in Y6 pass 5 GCSEs.

So to be on track to pass GCSEs you do really want to be a 4b.

However in your SATs you don't get a sublevel. You just get a plain 4.

mrz Fri 17-May-13 07:13:11

Technically a,b & c sub levels don't exist in the National Curriculum only whole levels.

lljkk Fri 17-May-13 07:41:40

Below average is not terrible.
Kids are not robots and improve at varying often quite unpredictable rates.
Plenty of kids who get very good grades in y6 will flub at GCSE for other reasons (social, personal, immaturity, etc.)
Other kids who struggled at y6 will dig heels in and achieve far more than statistics suggest.

mumsneedwine Fri 17-May-13 08:05:55

Leaving with a 4 is fine. It just means they have reached the 'expected' standard for an 11 year old - so they are where they should be. The a,b,c stuff just means :
c - just working at that level
b - comfortable and consistently working at the level
a - regularly working at the level and dipping into next level
And kids develop at different rates so their future is not set in stone by getting a level 4 ! I always tell people about my hulking great son who was a 3 in maths when he left primary and is now at Oxford studying .... Maths !! Be proud of the 4 (schooling can be a competitive parent boasting place) and look forward to the next chapter. It all changes at Secondary

MrsMelons Fri 17-May-13 09:55:28

Calico - I saw an article last year based on GCSE results and it said less than 40% passed 5 GCSEs if did not achieve the exoected level in KS2 SATs - I do hope it has improved to the stats you quote since that article was published.

I would only be concerned with a 4c if the school were not trying to ensure my child was a secure level 4. If they were just allowing my child to scrape through for their own results it would be an issue.

wheresthebeach Fri 17-May-13 10:00:44

To a lot of parents the description of 'expected level' sounds/feels like 'average'.
My SS was level 3 in year 6 for maths and science.
He got a B in maths GCSE (taken early) of his A level choices is...Physics as he's on track for As and A* in science.

seeker Fri 17-May-13 10:04:55

You need to dig a little deeper. The key thing to look at is whether the low, middle and high attainers all make expected progress.

CalicoRose Fri 17-May-13 10:58:50

MrsMelons - Here are last year's stats:

Children's GCSE pass rate (5+ A* - C) , based on their Y6 SATs:

L3 or below: 7.1%
L4: 55.1%
L5: 94%

So 45% of kids who got a L4 didn't go on to get 5+ GCSEs.

SuedeEffectPochette Fri 17-May-13 13:43:02

Thanks for all this everyone. At my children's school, about 1/3 seem to leave with a level 5. When they get their sats results, then, is is just a straight 4 or 5 and not a, b c etc? It seems that the aim for for them to have at least a level 5 by the end of year 10 (is that right?) so they seem to be doing quite well at this school I guess.......
I love the stories of kids on level 3 doing well later on - good for them!! Gives us all hope!

lljkk Fri 17-May-13 14:20:05

I read that the parents get a report of abc but the school uses a flat 3/4/5 for their own records and targetting.
I think 1/4-1/3 achieving L5+ is about typical.

Iamnotminterested Fri 17-May-13 14:28:25

Not doing GCSEs for a long time here but my Dd got a 4c on teacher assessment in maths in year 6, flat level 4 in the test as that's how they are reported (I would hazard a guess at 4c too) and her end of year 7 target is 5a; don't write off a 4c child.

Claudiecat Fri 17-May-13 14:36:47

I can assure you that a child who scrapes a 4C will most definitely have been supported and pushed. Teachers have in year school targets to achieve and have to demonstrate all children have made good to accelerated progress. Any teacher worth their salt would have been working hard for them.

Iamnotminterested Fri 17-May-13 14:43:23

Supported, yes; intervention, yes; for who's benefit? Hers.

Claudiecat Fri 17-May-13 15:17:17

Speaking from my own experience yes. Why would you not want children up achieve their full potential?

MrsMelons Fri 17-May-13 16:02:37

Claudie - I would hope that is the case but I suspect there are schools where this does not happen sadly.

Calico - I see, yes that is what I read (I just confused myself thinking about it the wrong way round), so over 40% not just under (unless I was looking at the 2011 results). Still not great though.

ThreeBeeOneGee Fri 17-May-13 18:46:30

When DS1 finished Y6 (two years ago) his report listed the level he got in each subject but not the sublevel.

BabiesAreLikeBuses Fri 17-May-13 18:55:59

As mrz said you only get the whole level, sublevels are only useful within school to help work out next steps

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