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Child told she was "not allowed" to go to the toilet.

(189 Posts)
Offred Mon 13-May-13 18:02:40

Because of SATs, when they were doing IT, she wasn't doing SATs, she is 6. They didn't want the SATs to be disturbed by traipsing children.

DD took it literally and wee'd herself. The class laughed at her. They did not call me, put her in her PE kit with no tights/socks even though we cycle and they know this and it poured with rain/hail today. Then the TA hassled me about the importance of returning the knickers to reception tomorrow morning. I gave them short shrift as my focus was more DD's feelings, called for the teacher. The teacher said DD should have known she could ask.

That is all they plan to do about it.

What do I do?

Dd is fine but I think she should be more upset and being resigned to such a lack of empathy is a bad sign.

I am quite upset.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:07:53

Dd has struggled to integrate with school anyway, emotionally, she is being bullied and the school raised concerns about her emotions last year but were not very supportive in helping her settle in, felt she just needed to suck it up and shouldn't be finding it so hard socially. They were worried because she would never focus on anything and seemed distracted. Now she has gone too far the other way and is extremely overly compliant. Recently had total breakdown going into school over the assembly because she had a big part and was nervous but hadn't wanted to tell the teacher her worries and instead had a big tantrum. I feel they've taught her they are not interested in her feelings, they just want her to comply and that has contributed to what happened today. It is very confusing to be told to comply and then told she should have known they didn't mean something they said and she should have known that. How? How should she know when they mean things and when they don't?

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:11:14

I want them to speak to the tech and I want them to acknowledge that they shouldn't have told the class they weren't allowed to go to the toilet. I think they should not be blaming dd for not knowing she would be allowed if she asked. There were better ways of phrasing that so that the children understood that it was important they went before the lesson and didnt traipse in and out.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Mon 13-May-13 19:11:41

Of course the poor thing took it literally! [angy] STUPID teacher!

LackaDAISYcal Mon 13-May-13 19:17:03

You could have asked for something more suitable when you picked her up? Asked to have a dig through lost property or asked a friend if they had anything spare?

I really think you are over-reacting here as well. Though in light of your new information about her emotional wellbeing, I can understand why.
Notwithstanding, the school could have handled it better and maybe need to reschedule the KS1 IT classes for this week during SATS so the little ones aren't put in the position of feeling that they are upsetting the exams?

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:18:18

Even if they'd said that and then dd had wet herself still I'd not be upset if they had just said to her "oh sorry, dd we didn't mean that you couldn't ask!" Then they'd tried to find her some decent clothes and if not given me a ring to bring some. It's the attitude that's mostly the problem, like she had inconvenienced them and they were annoyed at her rather than just actually dealing with it like humans. Why leave her to cycle home like that when all it would have taken was a quick phone call. This is a class of 20 with a teacher, two TAs, the IT tech and two receptionists all potentially able to quickly give me a ring. If I had sent her in in the morning with shorts and no socks/tights they'd be logging it as a safeguarding issue.

Tournament Mon 13-May-13 19:18:33

I'm shock at the suggestion that this is somehow a traumatic life event for DD. Not nice, but soon forgotten if no big fuss is made of it. I work in a school and honestly, 6yo's wetting themselves is not unusual.

I agree it sounds like the teacher could have worded it differently, but I really don't see the benefit of making a huge issue of it.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:21:13

But yes, this thread is making me see that actually she is getting much better at dealing with the bullies. When the class laughed she pretended to be a zombie so they weren't humiliating her but laughing at her doing something funny.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:23:07

I don't think it is a traumatic life event. She's had much worse. I am just upset at the way the school is handling it; blaming her effectively.

Elibean Mon 13-May-13 19:23:39

My biggest concern would be the fact that dd seems to be being blamed for not having asked to go (when she was told she couldn't), and that she wasn't dressed in appropriate clothes in chilly weather.

I wouldn't expect to be called unless a) dd was very upset or b) there were no appropriate clothes for them to dress her in.

Whether or not children are normally allowed to go to the toilet mid lesson is up to the individual school - but there should always be a clear message that urgent need can be expressed and heard!

The lack of empathy and the way they've handled things, if the class laughed and dd was not supported, is not ok either sad

Elibean Mon 13-May-13 19:25:32

oh - and I am remembering dd2 pooing in her pants when she had a tummy upset and decided (without being told anything of the sort) she wasn't allowed to interrupt the carpet time just before going home. She was very distressed, but the teacher was lovely and made sure dd had dry clothes, was not humiliated, and understood to ask next time.

She was 5 at the time.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:26:04

Yes, that's what I am concerned about elibean. They claimed not to have anything else for her to wear and hadn't called me to ask me to bring something. Then had an attitude of irritation with me when I picked her up. No concern for her at all.

NiceTabard Mon 13-May-13 19:27:50

I have a very literal DD and if someone tells her something then that's the way it is. She is also very obedient.

If you tell children they are not allowed to go to the toilet then many of them will get the message that they are not allowed to go to the toilet. If they are compliant or literal they will take what they are told at face value and that will be that.

It was a really stupid thing for the technician to say - especially given that they didn't mean it confused - and while some situations where a child wets themself go by without much else, in a situation where the child has been told one thing and then effectively told that they did the wrong thing by doing as they were told + the other children laughing, it can be an incident that erodes confidence and stays with the child for a long time.

LackaDAISYcal Mon 13-May-13 19:29:39

Oh come on OP, no tights or socks a safeguarding issue? really? And your indignation iver the weather? Dies she not have a waterproof suit or waterproof trousers? Those over her shorts would have been perfectly warm enough. And if she doesn't have waterproofs, why not? why blame the school for your neglect to provide suitable wet weather cycling gear?

I think your indignation is getting the better of you now. You obviously have issues with the way the school are dealing with your DD generally and this may well be the last straw for you, but your letting it cloud your judgement somewhat over something and nothing, if this had been an isolated incident. If the whole school attitude is causing you this much caoncern, make an appointment to see the headteacher and get your underlying concerns addressed rather than making this incident out to be a much bigger thing that it would appear to be.

And as a precaution, I would send her in with spare clothes or keep a spare set in your panniers in case it happens again, or get her some waterproof trousers.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:30:16

I think she will be fine over this incident, she pulled it back with comedy, her first success with the bullying tbh. I am concerned that the school didnt handle it properly and still aren't when I have complained. I understand the tech is just a tech and they make these mistakes but the whole process in dealing with it is what has gone wrong.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:33:49

She normally has waterproofs but it was sunny and warm this morning. They were aware she didn't have them. She had a raincoat and would have been fine in her uniform but not with bare legs.

Yes, of course they would safeguard if I had sent her in in shorts and no socks. Inappropriate clothes are a sign of neglect. I was not aware she'd wet her tights and been put in her PE kit otherwise obviously I would have brought her some clothes.

lljkk Mon 13-May-13 19:35:24

Dunno, am on the fence. Cycling in hail is miserable no matter what you wear, anyway.

By end of y2 they need to learn to manage their toileting so that they don't need breaks during actual class time. But this should have become apparent in recent months, not if it was a sudden rule. I know she's unlucky enough to be one of the younger ones, but she still needs to learn self-control (usual disclaimers about SN apply).

And if she's being bullied sounds like she needs to strongly learn to stand up for herself. Saying that as a child victim of bullying myself. It's all part of the same picture, needing to learn to be assertive.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:35:57

She's only in year 1

pofacedlemonsucker Mon 13-May-13 19:39:27

Loads of kids wet themselves at school.

I really can't get too exercised about it. They have her dry things.

I have literally lost track of the times (well above thirty) that mine have appeared at the gates merrily swinging a carrier bag of urine soaked uniform.

She didn't make a big deal about it because it isn't a big deal and the school dealt with it correctly.

You going on and on will merely convince her that this is awful and she should be ashamed, and that the staff are incapable of looking after her.

<slow hand clap>

Get over it. Honestly. Mountain out of a molehill.

LackaDAISYcal Mon 13-May-13 19:41:17

inappropriate clothes repeatedly over a period of time is a sign of neglect, ffs. And you cannot expect the school to provide changeable weather suitable spare clothes when you don't even do it yourself. My DS2 came home wearing shorts after wetting himself. It was snowing when I picked him up. I appreciated that it's all the school had available and listened to him whinge all the way home. I did not expect that they should have called me. It's a bit of weather. No-one died being cold and wet on the way home from school.

Get over yourself about the clothes and sort out the underlying issues with the school, which really is the crux of the matter here.

NiceTabard Mon 13-May-13 19:43:38

Depends how the school handle it I think.

DD wet herself a few times in recep and they quietly gave her some clothes to change into.

This thing with all the other children laughing bothers me, as does the thing about the DD being bullied. Doesn't sound like a very caring atmos.

OP I think you need to go in and talk to them about all the issues as a piece.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:49:05

Why is it unreasonable to expect they could have called me to ask me to bring something for her legs/feet?

I DO normally bring weather proof stuff and she would have been fine if she had been in the clothes I had sent her to school in. THEY changed her clothes, I was not aware they had and they could easily have quickly called me so why didn't they? Is the argument really that attributing blame is more important than dd actually being looked after?

I am not making it into a big deal with dd, I don't agree they handled it properly because they should never have told the class they weren't allowed to go to the toilet and when they realised the tech had said that and dd had taken it literally they should have handled it much better than blaming dd for not asking.

I have been dealing with the other issues btw. This is still an issue in its own right to me.

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:51:59

I wasn't expecting the school to provide anything. I didn't expect dd to have an accident because she is 6 and has been potty trained for 4 years. I would not have predicted that she would be told the class were not allowed to go to the toilet. When that happened I simply expected them to treat her like a human, not to blame her and if they didn't have anything similar to what she was wearing to just call me so I could bring something. I fail to see how that's unreasonable, they weren't swapping like for like when they put her pe kit on.

mrz Mon 13-May-13 19:52:34

"This is still an issue in its own right to me ."

Catmint Mon 13-May-13 19:53:44

My dd is also in y1 age 6 and recently went brought a phase of wetting herself every day because she thought that she was not allowed to go to the toilet. She got really sore skin from having wee all over her.

We really had to work hard to remind her to go to the toilet during break, and to ask to go at other times if needed. And we also agreed that if she needed to go and no one noticed her hand was up, she should go anyway. We told the teacher, who reluctantly agreed. ( dd had said several times that teacher had not noticed her with her hand up).

She now goes to school with an entire change of clothes in her bag, because they ran out of things to lend her that fit. They never put her in her pe kit, always uniform items. Also, the knickers they lent her once or twice were new.

Obviously you need to wash and dry the items before returning them. Your dd's school sounds a bit odd, op. It sounds as if they have never had a child have an accident before and had no idea how to deal with it, but that couldn't be the case, could it?

Offred Mon 13-May-13 19:54:00

Yes, to me. I thought my op made it very clear that I am upset and dd is fine. As dd's parent, who is responsible for making sure she is cared for am I not allowed to be upset if I feel a care provider is not providing up to scratch care?

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