Teacher shouting at kids!(21 Posts)
My DD is 10, year 5. Their lovely teacher is away on Tuesdays, and they have a different teacher then, who screams at them and sends them to a different class for crimes such as not putting their pencil down, or getting up to get something from their bag. DD and her friends say that this man "shouts on their faces" and that he has bad breath , which tells me that he does get too close in order to shout. I have told the children to keep out of his way, but I'm wondering should I raise the issue with the school...
It might be that "not putting their pencil down" is not about the act, but about not doing as they're told.
What I mean is, it could be that he asked them four times to put their pencils down or something. I'm just saying it might not be the whole picture.
Personally I don't have a problem with teachers raising their voices, but I would just check you're getting the full picture first.
I would make sure that you have the full picture first. E.g are the class generally reasonable- they can play up supply teachers, and sometimes in quite subtle ways. I am not saying that he is not at fault- I would just make sure of your facts.
You are right! I have no problem with a teacher being firm or raising their voice, that's why i have asked several children in their class, in a casual way, about what this teacher is like. Even two girls who are always perfectly behaved have told me the same....
DS Y3 said at the beginning of the year that his teacher shouted at them and that she wasn't very nice. Our hairdresser had her at school as well and said that she isn't particularly good with DC. When I spoke to her she seemed very friendly and empathetic and DS was amazed how friendly she was. He hasn't said much lately.
The teacher is very experienced and gets results. Maybe DS was a bit shocked by the change to junior school where he isn't treated like a small child anymore.
What you describe sounds bad though. It might be difficult but it might be fairer to have a diplomatic word with the teacher himself to get the facts from both sides before approaching the HT.
Have a friendly chat with the teacher- he/she must be aware, to some extent, of what happens when they are not there.
"Not putting their pencil down, or getting up to get something from their bag" could, from a teacher's point of view, look like deliberate defiance. It could be a class with several children who refuse to listen and obey, who carry on writing, drawing or playing hangman while he is talking and get up and wander around the class at random, possibly even while he is addressing them. It is all in the perception, and children and supply teachers can see it very differently.
Doesn't sound as if this teacher is any old supply teacher though as it seems that he is regularly there on one day of the week. He should be able to manage the class more appropriately by now although I agree that the children should not be getting out of their seats without permission. I also do not think that he should send children to another class for doing things that are unacceptable to him. He needs to develop some strategies for dealing with things himself. Have a chat with him if you are unhappy and if you are still not satisfied have a word with the team leader in the department.
I teach y5, my class are fine for me and don't need a raised voice but can smell out a substitute teacher and play up accordingly! If lots of kids say the same you may have an issue, it may be worth looking at the school's behaviour policy which should be available on the website or by request... It may be a standard sanction to send them to a partner class, ive worked at a few places where that's the case esp for repeat offenders! And then when you know how they're meant to do it chat to his usual teacher
That was the reason for my first reply BabiesAreLikeBuses. I have had many difficult classes as a supply teacher, but the worst were a class of mainly very intelligent year 5s and it was very subtle- they were as good as gold for the teacher and on the face of it you could say the same for me, in that if I complained about anything they could look all innocent, as if butter wouldn't melt, and they could say 'whatever is she talking about?!'. It was nearly all of them and constant- although anyone coming in would have seen an ordered classroom with DCs working.
It was very difficult to use the schools behaviour policy because every child kept their head below the parapet. It is a bit difficult to explain because it is the only class I have had like it- most have open difficult behaviour that you can deal with, either alone or within the school's behaviour policy.
In the end I went to the Head and said that I was sorry but I would do any other class but I wasn't doing that one again.
She was wonderful and kept them alone after assembly and told them what would happen if she couldn't get a supply teacher in with them. I had spoken to other experienced supply teachers who all had the same problem with them.
I then went back to class with them and followed up with the behaviour that I didn't want to see- I found a very long list - all of it petty as a one off but impossible as a whole. Once I had it all out in the open I didn't have a problem.
That is why I said OP needs to be sure of facts and that the class are not playing him up.
exotic, yes that's what I think. They could be winding up him up in subtle ways.
At school, we used to love supply teachers as we used to give them false names and play them up something terrible, but we'd be all butter wouldn't melt if another teacher came in.
Every child of every generation in every country in the world loves a supply teacher.
They can smell the fear, and known they can get away with anything because whatever they do with/to/in front of a temp is not going to have consequences.
If ever a supply teacher asked us our name, we'd always say "Barbara"
Generally I didn't have a problem because I had only a few schools and was regular so they knew there were consequences- I knew names which was a help because I had generally taught them when younger. I used to leave detailed notes for the teacher on how it went. The problem with that particular class was that each incident on its own was nothing- together they were unpleasant.
There is no doubt that older juniors will play up with supply teachers if they can get away with it - and they generally can if it is a one off who doesn't know them.
exoticfruits - yes, I have worked in a couple of grammar schools and had DC doing a similar thing, not open misbehaviour but a more intelligent, subtle way of undermining the teacher.
Sounds v familiar!! I've never had a lot likevmy current ones, they are clever enough to know how much they can get away with and it's all very subtle low level stuff, nothing that's really naughty but if you were in there for more than an hour it would test your patience!!
The more intelligent ones don't generally cause problems - but if they do they are very good at it!
My class ( yr6 ) had a supply teacher yesterday afternoon - as I told them , I could see the glee in their faces. When I returned, the poor supply was on her knees and said I deserved a medal! They are fine for me, but know exactly how to wind up a supply. As you said, these are small crimes- flicking a rubber, repeatedly asking for help when not needed, going to get things from around the classroom etc, but CONSTANT and v. disruptive. This includes the children who are NEVER in trouble- everyone loves a supply teacher!!
It also means that you can't leave a note for the teacher about their 'crimes' because it sounds very petty as in 'they wouldn't put their pencils down when asked'!!
My DS1 is like that when he has the HLTA cover the main teacher's PPA.
His class teacher he behaves perfectly for.
He says that he respects his class teacher because she "doesn't shout at you for asking for help".
He does have a personality clash with this HLTA, and he's not the only pupil in school to have issues with her.
She tends to treat academically clever DC's like their social development matches their academic development. Which it doesn't always.
Even the other DC's in his class cone up to me and say that she picks on DS1, and sends him out of the class for things that she wouldn't send other DC's out for.
He got sent out at the end of reading last week - because he was so engrossed in his book that he hadn't heard her say that it was the end of reading time. Added to that the fact that he will NOT stop reading halfway down a page (won't at home either), and she saw it as disobedience.
All he did once she had gone up to him and shouted at him to put his book down was to ask if he could just finish that page, please, and according to the other DC's in the class, she went 'loopy'. DS1 didn't even tell me - three of his classmates did. One of them was someone who HATES my DS1, and even she sought he out to tell me.
So, he doesn't respect her because "respect is earned, not automatically given because of age or job title. If she wants my respect, she should stop screaming in my face and show a little self-control".
Yes, he can be an irritating PITA sometimes...
I work as a TA and see the same children behave very differently for different teachers.
Sometimes they are just testing the boundaries, other times they are taking advantage of an adult at a bit of a disadvantage. I always work hard to maintain usual routines and rules but it is hard work to keep them on task and I'm so much more tired at the end of the day.
Always glad to see the regular teacher back in the class, and so are the children. It's unsettling for everyone.
OP how about suggesting to your dd that she does as she is told and see if the teacher still shouts at her?
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