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Oxford reading tree....confused

(52 Posts)
SparklyStream Fri 05-Apr-13 15:11:58

What's the difference between 'Read with Kipper, Biff, Chip' level 3 and 'ORT' level 3?

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 07:39:22

I think you need to remember that the ORT books were written over 30 years ago at the height of L&S in the UK and were something quite different then. The idea was they gave children actual short stories in each book. Saying that I can't abide Biff Chip and friends. The jokes in the illustrations are probably the best part of the book but do nothing to help a child learn to read.

Mashabell Tue 09-Apr-13 08:40:43

U make perfect sense to me Simpson.
As I said before, children's reading improves with reading.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 08:47:39

I don't think they have much else. the Reception and Year 1 classes are on a separate site to yr2 so I think when new books have been purchased at these levels they have gone into the yr2 boxes which makes sense as they will get used more there than by a small number of children in reception/yr1. DD likes the fireflies non fiction ones and sometimes finds a magic key she likes but there only 6 fireflies in the box so her interest soon dies off. She just says that if she is going to read a story she wants to read a good one and none of us can argue with that can we.

I think this is the problem once they have learned and proved they can do decoding and reading fluently etc. What books DO you give them. It is a difficult situation. We all know that reading is so much more than just being able to read the words but the other skills involved can be taught through so many other books which might hold their interest and develop their skills in other ways.

I know her school want to get some new books and I personally would like it if they supplemented the higher books with some others to show many children that they CAN read other things. I think we have all come across children who can only read reading scheme books because they all have a distinct style. it is like a child who can read rainbow fairy books has learned that style and formula for a book, they can virtually read a large part of it without actually reading it if that makes sense. Any series of books beyond teaching spelling/phonics/decoding/early words etc is the same.

I don't mind the ORT books in many ways, I don't object to them but I do find it heavy going at this level and it certainly makes my daughter switch off. I am just hoping that they soon raise her up the levels so we are beyond the ORT books they have and can get on to whatever else they have. She likes books with a sense of humour, she likes chapter books but still likes colour pictures so lots of usborne, banana and early reader type ones. I wonder if the school have some of the treetops ones as they would be more her cup of tea.

I agree with Simpson at the higher levels I think the ORT ones are great for children without access to other books or with less support at home and the teachers know what level they are at but for many children branching out and reading other stories would probably be more beneficial.

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 08:57:18

Is there some reason a child can't get a book from the Y2 classroom perriwinkle?
We keep all our reading scheme books on shelves which are accessible to everyone not out of reach in different classrooms and books are allocated by teachers not randomly chosen by the child. That way the book sent home has a teaching purpose rather than having an appealing front cover.

simpson Tue 09-Apr-13 09:07:21

My DC school(in infants) used to have one massive shelf along the corridor in which any class teacher could access but now each class has their own box of books.

It does not seem hugely easy to access the reading books of another class. DD was getting her reading books from yr2 but this seems to have stopped. I think because they are wondering what they will do when she has read them all hmm

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 09:18:38

get some from Y3?

simpson Tue 09-Apr-13 09:28:02

Mrz - you would think so grin but juniors is round the other side so nobody ever got any for DS when he was in yr2 so I assume the same is happening for DD.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 09:34:49

year 2 are in a completely different building across the road. For a reception child to go and get a book from there would involve a separate outing with a teacher through lots of locked doors and gates etc to get there an then they would have to keep track of which books were from which building. It is just the set up of the school buildings sadly.

She gets to choose a book from the relevant box twice a week (one day on her own, one day supervised and suggested) and then the teacher chooses the book the 3rd day so often the complete opposite of the style the child would choose themselves. They seem quite thorough with making sure the child is addressing all areas (well they have been with my daughter anyway, I know others have just read 1 or 2 books at a level) my daughter has had 26 books at one level, over 20 at another etc and these have been of different schemes, different styles, ones with lots of conversation in, ones with rhyming in, non fiction of different styles and subjects so a good range. It is just the number and variety of books seems to drop drastically now we are on level 8.

I agree they should get them from further up the school for Simpson's daughter but I think in many cases they just forget the good readers due to lack of time to focus on a child who in many ways doesn't NEED help which I can understand to a point. I just think it is a shame if some of us (well me, possibly it is JUST me) have to go through enormous tantrums just over a school reading book when she likes reading, just not their books. I don't want to say 'you don't have to read it' because I think that leads towards a dangerous path of 'homework doesn't matter' 'schoolwork isn't important' etc

argh being a parent can be difficult.

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 09:51:27

Periwinkle I would suggest that your child's school has a serious resourcing issue from what you describe

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 09:59:35

quite probably, the lower levels of books are very good and well resourced but for the 'good' readers there isn't an enormous amount there to choose from. well not that I have seen when I have walked past the boxes (obviously I can't get in and nosy around) and from what my daughter says. Perhaps there are a lot more books in those levels but lots of Yr1 children are on them too so they are out, I don't know. Perhaps it is just my daughter has so many books at home she is used to having a wonderful choice of books which are interesting. She is normally very good at picking books though, she looks at what the title is, the cover picture, looks inside on a few pages to see what it is about or looks on the back to see what it says it is about etc. so I don't think she just grabs the first one she sees.

This is why I was asking though what sort of books YOU have in levels 8/9/10 as I would like to encourage some restocking of certain areas when they DO buy new books so that they don't just get ignored because they aren't used that much.

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 10:10:16

In the infants we use
Phonics Bug
Comics for Phonics
Project X phonics
Big Cat phonics
Rag Tag Rhymes
Rapid Phonics
Magic Belt
Bug Club
Rigby Star phonics
Literacy World
All Stars
Rapid Readers
National Geographic
Rigby Rockets
Project X
The code

and after that my mind goes blank

children can also take home chapter books whenever they wish to read for pleasure

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 10:19:11

Our books go up to ORT stage 16 in the infants

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 10:19:12

thank you

I know they have some collins big cat ones through in Yr2 from friends children but I don't recall any in reception/yr1 boxes.

She enjoyed some project X ones on the ORT website (something about chameleons and camouflage)

National Geographic sound good.

I think it is just the sheer lack of enjoyment in some of the ranges and that too many of the same type gets so dull.

I have to speak to her teacher a couple of weeks into term anyway to see how things are going with her eyes so I might mention it then.

simpson Tue 09-Apr-13 10:20:29

What stage does dandelion go up to?

Periwinkle - have you checked out the reading chest? I signed DD up when she was in nursery (as she was getting no books from school) and she loves it although project x is not up her street.

She gets a mixture of big cat Collins, bug club, alpha kids, treetops and I can't remember anything else blush

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 10:27:05

well thank goodness Biff and co die off before Stage 16 or I might have to lock myself in a steel box somewhere

I don't know what they have beyond book band 10 as those books are in the teacher's cupboard as so few children in reception or year 1 need them if any. I would assume they have treetops or red bananas or equivalent but we may not find out for some time even though those are the sort of books she is reading.

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 10:28:57

They aren't levelled because they are phonic books and have a progression through to phonic code.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 10:29:09

I haven't Simpson no - I did look at it but then I thought if she is happy reading non scheme books now then she doesn't really need it. It is more a case of trying to get through the school books without her wailing 'why are they doing this to me?' 'why are they making me read this?' 'I want to read something interesting' and so on so I don't think she would go for the scheme books outside of the school books if that makes sense.

simpson Tue 09-Apr-13 10:29:42

DD has also read some Australian books which were levelled at gold I think (by the school) but seemed harder than gold to me. But she quite liked them.

At the lower levels she had a couple of Heinemann books and we have only had one Biff et al book (although it was one of the worst).

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 10:37:22

you are so lucky with the lack of Biff book. especially as you must have been dreading it after having one child through them all already. can't say I am looking forward to my other daughter starting them all next year. lets hope they get some new books before then

simpson Tue 09-Apr-13 10:43:11

Especially since that is all kids read in yr1...

Hoping that they don't suddenly bump her down several levels when she goes into yr1 (happened to DS) and if that happens we may not have escaped them after all hmm

DD quite likes the reading chest books (especially the treetops ones) but I don't envisage her being on it much longer. It only goes up to lime and so she may as well stay on it till then.

DD loves Biff etc (it is me who hates them!!)

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 10:53:18

It could just be that DD doesn't like the fact they are printed on white paper so are harder for her to read, it could be she genuinely has realised they are drivel or it could be she is just spoilt with her books at home.

I wouldn't be very pleased if they bumped her down when changing class unless they could show exactly what it was they needed the child to work on. Obviously if they think there is a need to practice something in particular phonics wise or something then fair enough but it would probably be better to address it with more concentrated work on that sound than subject them to lower level books.

simpson Tue 09-Apr-13 10:57:51

A lot of kids don't seem to read at home so when they have 6 weeks off in the summer obviously forget things hence dropping in book levels.

I thought I was doing the right thing when DS went from reception to yr1 by letting him have the summer off completely (which did him no harm obviously) but of course he forgot some of his phonics.

I did not make the same mistake in between yrs 1-2 and it still happened hmm (him dropping book levels I mean, not him forgetting stuff).

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Apr-13 11:00:59

yes thats true, they do forget things if they aren't doing them, hadn't really thought of that. I was just imagining them still reading over the holidays but I can see they often don't.

mrz Tue 09-Apr-13 11:24:12

I moved all my Y1 class down in September not because they hadn't read over the summer break but because I wanted to develop skills and fluency which is easier when the child isn't focusing on trying to "read" more difficult words.

simpson Tue 09-Apr-13 11:31:51

DS dropped about 4 levels IIRC (and then went back up 2 after a week).

I totally agree that if a child is sounding out a lot they may not know what they are reading...

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