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year 5 assessment

(41 Posts)
santy Fri 22-Feb-13 17:39:18

My daughter has just had some assessments she is is year 5 and achieved a 6c in her reading/literacy test. Am I right in thinking this is a year 8 grade?

mrz Fri 22-Feb-13 17:43:32

Children at the end of KS3(age 14) are expected to achieve level 5/6

santy Fri 22-Feb-13 17:52:07

thank you smile

tiggytape Fri 22-Feb-13 18:03:22

Yes it is.
But when a child is actually at secondary school it doesn't seem to work like that in practice. There aren't many (any?) children in Year 7 on a current level 8 even at the top end of the ability range. Level 7 in Year 7 is also rare.
Considering so many children leave primary school with level 5a's and 6's this doesn't seem to translate into a Year 8 full of children on levels 7 and 8. Even in Year 9, level 8 is considered very rare. I don't quite know why the Primary and Secondary levels don't seem to correspond.

Either way though - however you compare the levels - your DD is doing exceptionally well

santy Fri 22-Feb-13 18:10:01

Thank you. That makes sense. I am proud of her smile

mrz Fri 22-Feb-13 18:12:56

tiggytape the OPs child isn't on level 8 she's on level 6C

teacherwith2kids Fri 22-Feb-13 18:13:35

Tiggy, are you working on the idea that children are expected to go up 1 level per year?

It doesn't work like that - it's 2 levels over the 4 years of KS2, for example. I suspect it's probably 2 levels over KS3 - there are others who would know better than me.

So DS, who entered Year 7 on 5s and 6s, has targets of 7s and 8s for the end of KS3, which would indicate 2 levels of progress over the 3 years of the Key Stage IYSWIM?

teacherwith2kids Fri 22-Feb-13 18:19:34

(However - doubting self now - as expected levels for the end of KS3 are given as 5/6, it may be that 1.5 levels is 'expected', as if it were to be 2, then the expected level at the end of KS3 would simply be 6...)

So between 1/2 and 2/3 of a level per year seems to be expected in KS3 - so e.g. from 6c to 6a might be expected progress within a single year, or from 6c to 7c over 2 years.

mrz Fri 22-Feb-13 18:28:03

Yes it is 2 levels in each Key Stage
so level 2 at the end of KS1 age 7
level 4 at the end of KS2 age 11
and level 5/6 at the end of KS3 age 14

teacherwith2kids Fri 22-Feb-13 18:29:57

But mrz - if 2 levels, why 5/6 at the end of KS3 not just 6? That was what confused me...

mrz Fri 22-Feb-13 18:40:45

It all seems slightly mad with the DfE push for level 6s in Y6

tiggytape Fri 22-Feb-13 19:15:47

That's what I mean - OPs daughter is a 6c in Year 5 which is fantastic whichever way you look at it.

I am just confused because many children are level 5a or 6 at the end of year 6. It is a good achievement but by no means a rare one. In fact level 5 is nolonger 'good enough' for many and is now seen as inferior since the level 6 papers came back again.
So how does this translate later on? Assuming some of the Year 6's get a 6b (I know it isn't recorded like that in Year 6), you should have a few children on the cusp of a 7a / 8c level in Year 8 whereas that is considered rare - rarer than getting a level 6 in Year 6 it seems? A level 8 in Year 9 is considered exceptional.

I am probably wrong in my assumption somewhere along the line. It just strikes me as odd that so many children get level 5's and level 6 in Year 6 in Year 6 and yet the overall target for 3 years later is 'only' a level 5/6.
Are children embarking on their GCSEs at the expected level for thir age really at the same standard as a clever 10 year old 3 years below them?

mrz Fri 22-Feb-13 19:31:41

Sorry I was confused by your post which I thought was saying there aren't many Y7 children on level 8 which of course the OPs child is unlikely to be although it seems likely that will be her target for Y10

mrz Fri 22-Feb-13 19:33:41

Obviously there are those clever 10 year olds who are more than capable of achieving a GCSE 6 years early.

cumbrialass Fri 22-Feb-13 19:49:22

Which is presumably why the Government is now harping on about the failure of secondary schools to support high achieving children in maintaining their early progress

We are expected to ensure AT least 30% of our children achieve level 5 in maths and 10% level 6. ( We were given similar targets for English last year and everyone simply laughed!)

tiggytape Fri 22-Feb-13 22:10:42

mrz - but do you think that is in the same proportion as children who achieve these levels in Year 6. If 10% of Year 6 students achieve level 6, is that the same as saying 10% of all 10 and 11 year olds could get level C if they took a GCSE exam at the same time.
I know there are some very clever 10 year olds around but level 5a and even level 6 in Year 6 isn't totally exceptional whereas I would have though a 10 year old getting Grade B or C in GCSE maths would be?

My DS left primary school with 5a's (his school didn't do the level 6 papers - he'd have probably got it for maths but not literacy where frankly he got lucky on the day). There is no way I see him as being as clever as a Year 9 child about to embark on GCSEs and I am sure if he took a GCSE exam right now, he'd fail it dismally. I guess I just don't believe a primary school level 6 is the same as a secondary school level 6.

cumbrialass Fri 22-Feb-13 22:30:00

A grade C at GCSE is in theory the equivalent to a level 7 on the NC levels, so yes, a level 5 would "fail dismally" but level 6 children could have a jolly good go! Has anyone looked at the maths GCSE paper recently? The foundation paper, which covers up to grade C, is well within the capabilities of good level 6 candidates. ( In fact I might give it to my top group next week to see how they get on!)

teacherwith2kids Fri 22-Feb-13 22:35:24

DS took a Maths GCSE foundation paper as his first termly assessment in Year 7....he was level 6 on leaving primary, and is a high 6 bordering on 7 now, so that seems entirely sensible.

tiggytape Fri 22-Feb-13 22:49:55

I am remembering perhaps my own exam days of quadratic equations, simultaneous equations, Pythagoras and other things I am sure DS would have no clue about.

Maybe I underestimate him or maybe the foundation paper is very different?
DS is in Year 7 and now a level 6 (I don't know his sub level but he scored over 90% in his assessment and is predicted a level 8 for Year 9 which the school said is the highest).

mrz Sat 23-Feb-13 07:55:43

I think a child that is genuinely a level 6 in Y6 and not just scrapping it to meet targets is quite capable of the GCSE foundation paper.

LivingInAPinkBauble Sat 23-Feb-13 08:05:20

Well done Santy's DD thanks
I have a year 5 in my class who is level 6 in Maths (sadly for me also level 1a children in same class maths group) and they are the first level 6 I have taught.

cumbrialass Sat 23-Feb-13 08:21:04

The first question on the foundation paper is "draw the line of symmetry" confused

In actual fact, the level 6 paper is probably consistently harder than the FoundationGCSE as ALL the questions on it are level 6. The GCSE paper covers grades from G upwards so the first few questions are ridiculously easy!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 23-Feb-13 08:41:37

I doubt they could manage a foundation science paper straight off though, because the syllabus content at KS4 is different to KS3. If taught it, then yes they could if you see what I mean.

We do start Ks4 in year 9. No student would actually sit the exam until the end of year 10 earliest because, as has been said up thread, they are not emotionally ready for the exam.

However, we have found that the students are ready for the level of work they are expected to do.

teacherwith2kids Sat 23-Feb-13 12:29:55

Shipwrecked, I would agree that in some subjects the 'factual content' element would prevent even the most able younger children being able to take foundation papers straight off.

Maths, tbh, is probably the subject in which it is most possible IYSWIM. English probably requires a level of 'emotional intelligence / maturity' that is hard for a younger child to dsiplay, and most other subjects require significant 'factual content'. Perhaps languages might be another example, if very well taught at primary level?

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 23-Feb-13 12:54:16

Yes, I would agree with that, although I know less about teaching those subjects

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