She can't be a 3C

[Cinammonandcaramel]

I've Just had a thread where you kind teachers thought DDs written work looked about 2c

School are claiming she's a 3c in reading (don't know what they're saying for writing)

I don't believe them.

She has a reading age of 7.10.
Her IEP target is to read stage 9 books with support.
She did a SATs paper at home with me and got a 2b.

She needs help with barrington stoke books which have a Reading age of 8

So is there any way she actually could be a 3c?

[learnandsay]

Written work and reading aren't the same thing at all. I don't see why both things couldn't be true.

[prettydaisies]

They might not be the same.
Could you ask the teacher how they assessed her? Was it a test (like the SATs paper) or is it based on how she does in class?

[mrz]

A level 3C would require being able to read ORT stage 11/ lime book band independently (roughly)

[WowOoo]

So is 3c a target rather than what she's achieving now in reading maybe or from school report about where she is now? Or do you mean writing?
I agree with Mrz re reading level.

Perhaps she is 3c under certain circumstances - simpler text with picture cues or a v familiar text where she can predict and already understands some concept not within text. Perhaps a school that marks generously.

For my ds, his writing is way below his reading level. He can read like a dream, but will take a little while to catch up with writing.

Anyway, sounds like she's doing v well

[Cinammonandcaramel]

Wow - she's not doing well. She's in Y5.

They are claiming she's a 3c. But she cannot read a stage 11 book. She needs support reading a stage 9 ORT book.

Mrz - is there any way she could be a 3c?

[mrz]

When children start out writing often lags behind reading

[Cinammonandcaramel]

Her current IEP target is:

To show understanding of a text which she has read with support from level 9 of the reading scheme.

To show understanding of texts read independently (Talisman series 2 books)

What NC level are the talisman books?

[mrz]

Talisman are intended for 8-14 year old readers with gaps in phonic knowledge

[mrz]

I would be sceptical about a level 3C but the Talisman books are very very effective

[Cinammonandcaramel]

They'll only be effective if they use them as part of a phonics program.

They won't help if she reads them like they're an ORT book (ie if they don't go over the phenome that's being introduced in the story)

And given that they won't even be honest about her level, and herIEP talks about flash cards there is no reason to suspect they'll use them properly :(

I hate school so much :(

Another 18 months of sending her there :(

[mrz]

I'm afraid so Cinammonandcaramel

[mrz]

phonicbooks.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/phonic-books-get-thumbs-up-in-ofsted-report/

[Cinammonandcaramel]

They have ticked (3 times) all the level 2 things in her APP grid, so I guess that is why they're saying she's a 3c.

Is that a valid approach?

[mrz]

No ...if they have ticked all the level 2 criteria on APP she is a level 2 they need to tick the level 3 criteria for her to be a level 3

[Cinammonandcaramel]

Update.

I had a meeting with the HT and SENCO today and while we didn't discuss what level she was at we did agree that she'd join the Y6s who are at a similar level and do RWI fresh start every day.

It's half an hour straight after lunch. So she'll be missing a significant amount of class - but she won't be missing literacy or maths.

Hope I've made the right call. The session will be taken by the SENCO and they're up to book 17, so hopefully that's the right level for her.

[SaltaKatten]

RWI while a bit monotonous can be very effective. They should have done an assessment of her phonics knowledge to ensure she is working on the right RWI books.

[Cinammonandcaramel]

There's only one RWI FS group running so that will be the one she joins.

I think it might be the wrong level for her. But I don't know.

From what I can see book 17 is about i-e. so she'll spend a whole week, a whole 2 1/2 hours on a sound she already knows.

[Cinammonandcaramel]

Have I done the right thing?

Letting her miss half an hour of class every day?

To join a phonics class which isn't at her exact level ?

and is full of 11 kids who have different learning difficulties than she does?

[SaltaKatten]

As a teacher I wouldn't be best pleased with such a large group. You can't get completely homogenous groups so there will be some overlap with sounds she already knows but it sounds like two smaller groups would have been preferable. The difficulty for schools tends to be staffing and prioritising which intervention groups to run. At this time of year in KS2, resources might well be focused on the children in year 6 who are borderline level 4 to prep them for sats. It's probably worth giving it a go though since improved reading will help her progress in other subjects as well.

[BrigitBigKnickers]

You cannot be a 3c by default of ticking everything in level 2.

We were told to have at least four boxes fully ticked on level 3 before we are able to say a child is level 3c

[Cinammonandcaramel]

None of these Y6 children are borderline L4s. They are all worse than that (as is DD)

My concerns are that she'll be missing half an hour of history/science etc - with no guarantee it will improve her reading.

She's already done 3 years of RWI and hated it so she will not be at all happy to go back to RWI. Which will presumably make it less effective.

[Cinammonandcaramel]

BBK - but if you'd ticked all those boxes yet a child could not read a level 3 text, could you still say they were a 3C?

[mrz]

No

[teacherwith2kids]

Am with Mrz.

The way I describe it to parents is that a child has to be able to show Level 3 skills on a Level 3 book to be Level 3. Roughly, using our APP-type reading skills grid, most but not all skills ticked in all Level 3 boxes when reading a range of at least level 3c books = 3c. All skills ticked at level 3, reading a range of books at around 3b = 3b. All skills at Level 3 + a few in level 4 ticked, reading a wide range of challenging books from Level 3 = 3a.

If your school assesses reading only through written comprehension papers (in which case, grrrr to them), then it is possible for a child to be given a 3c in that test even if they're not 3c day to day IYSWIM - which is the obvious problem with using 1-off tests of a single aspect of reading as a way of getting a level.

[Cinammonandcaramel]

As far as I can tell they've based the 3c purely on the fact they've ticked enough boxes on the APP grid.

If she has done a test I have not been told about it (at the meeting with the HT)

:(

But now they can claim she's making good progress, and their interventions are working.

She didn't say anything when I pointed out that her IEP target was to read a level 2b book with support

Seeing as they've inflated her grade for the last 2 years they've tied themselves in knots a bit.....