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Teachers - please, how bad is this?

(71 Posts)
CinammonAndCaramel Sun 10-Feb-13 09:46:28

Could any teacher please level this recount for me?

I am talking to HT this week and want to be prepared.

(DD is in Y5. I know the work is very bad for Y5. I need an idea of how bad)


Dire Dire
we have aried at the Camp. it was a long gerne mast of the way we cam by ship then We all aot a camel to rid a and then we cnowd dawn the rive nils
oun we got the the camp sit it was mid day and we were agsorst Matthew mad diner he dernt the fish but it dint Mate bacusme We We hungry ruffle 10 o'cklo we go to in aw slepping bag and Quickly Went to sleep

mrz Sun 10-Feb-13 16:06:52

I would want a detailed assessment of phonic knowledge and a high quality phonics programme delivered by someone who knows what they are doing.
What is her handwriting like?

CinammonAndCaramel Sun 10-Feb-13 16:11:05

Handwriting is OK.

Maths and science are OK.

Reading age is 7.10

She can't have a phonics programme delivered by someone who knows what they're doing, because no one in the school knows what they're doing.

She can't even have a phonics programme delivered by someone who doesn't know what they're doing because the school still believes in Searchlight.....

mrz Sun 10-Feb-13 16:17:58

She really need a good phonics programme for reading (including comprehension) and spelling. Do you know what programme the school uses other than Stile? If they are using Searchlight I'm afraid it is unlikely they have invested in a quality prog sad

Handwriting can often help with spelling.

CinammonAndCaramel Sun 10-Feb-13 16:31:42

Can you recommend any programmes? Especially that include comprehension?

They won't agree to them. But I'd rather ask for something than just say no to stile....

mrz Sun 10-Feb-13 16:43:17

Given that the school has no real phonics in place I would probably ask for Ruth Miskin Fresh Start and Comprehension.

Bear Necessities from Sound Foundations is quite simple to deliver and the Apples & Pears spelling prog likewise

maizieD Sun 10-Feb-13 16:46:50

Well, I know that mrz doesn't like Read Write Inc, but there's RWI Freshstart, a 'booster' programme for Y5 - Y8. I use it with Y7s & 8s, but it does have to be used by someone who knows what they are doingsad

Or there's the Burkards' programme often reccommended on here, Apples & Pears

maizieD Sun 10-Feb-13 16:47:18

aarrgh, too many 'c's in 'recommended'...

maizieD Sun 10-Feb-13 16:47:45

SNAP, mrz!

CinammonAndCaramel Sun 10-Feb-13 16:48:28


Ruprekt Sun 10-Feb-13 16:53:49

mrz - why do you not like read, write Inc? My school are trialling it for Y3 and Y4 intervention children in the afternoons.

overthebliddyhill Sun 10-Feb-13 17:04:57

I have seen "toe by toe" have excellent results and very easy to use at home. Google it and see what you think.

mrz Sun 10-Feb-13 17:20:25

Apples & Pears is much better than Toe by Toe IMHO.

Don't get me wrong Ruprekt RWI works it's just down to personal preference based on obs and talking to teachers who use it. I can't say for sure the teachers I've seen are using it as intended but it seems to take over everything as far as literacy is concerned.

CinammonAndCaramel Sun 10-Feb-13 17:51:36

She's doing apples and pears at home - that's why her spelling is so good!

I've asked for all her 1:1 to be stopped because I believe it's doing more harm than good.

They were quite happy to stop her daily 1:1 but when I asked them to also stop doing flash cards they got cross smile

I don't expect any help from school. I'm just trying to stop them from making things worse.

havingastress Sun 10-Feb-13 17:57:25


starrystarrymole Sun 10-Feb-13 18:37:28

"Once we got to the camp, it was midday and we were all exhausted". Hardly a 1a hmm

Badvoc Sun 10-Feb-13 18:46:40

Apples and pears is far better than toe by toe IMO.
And step by step and RWI.
I have tried them all.
My son (also year 5) and dx as dyslexic is doing really well on apples and pears.

isithometime Sun 10-Feb-13 20:02:21

I'm not sure if I have understood properly, your daughter has a "diagnosis" of dyslexia and is significantly under-performing in literacy, but you have asked them to stop all her one to one? Why is that? How can they offer her a specialised intervention such as suggested up thread, if she isnt getting any one to one?

CinammonAndCaramel Sun 10-Feb-13 20:11:43

I asked them to stop all her 1:1 because they were doing flash cards with her and encouraging her to guess. So the more 1:1 she got the worse her reading got.

It was making the phonics work I'm doing at home with her useless.

Plus she was being withdrawn from class and missing out on something else in order to be taught badly.

She's had a lot of 1:1. An awfult lot It's never helped. I've had enough now.

There's no way I'd stop it if it was helping.

CinammonAndCaramel Sun 10-Feb-13 20:12:40

They're not doing a specialised intervention with her. And they won't.

aamia Sun 10-Feb-13 20:20:34

Full stops and capital letters

CeceliaStrange Sun 10-Feb-13 21:18:10

Well first I'll be cynical: your DD has potential for significantly up-leveling her work by improving her grammar and spelling, so with next year being SATs year she should be targeted for support.

I'm a SENCO, I don't normally say on here under any username but this caught my eye, to be blunt your daughter needs a lot of input to realise her potential. She is quite able looking at her writing but unable to spell in line with her abilities.

You need to ask for her one to one back, BUT with a clear idea of how it will be used. She doesn't need to be withdrawn from the room for this, but can have additional support in class, e.g. forming sentences on a whiteboard with the TA before writing them in her book, writing a word bank with the TA during carpet time to use in her writing, working on a table with others, finishing 5 min earlier than the class to correct work with a TA, supported use of a laptop with co-writer software in some lessons, individual targets supported by TA...the list is endless

1. I don't know your school/ LEA/ borough but ask the SENCO, you should be able to phone her to phone you back, and find out what the contact details for your area parent forum/ group are. Speak to them and find out what support is commonly available for your area. This could be anything from assessments to programmes.

2. Don't under estimate the value of what you do at home, particularly if you can instil a love of books. Find a good librarian, listen to audio books, read ANYTHING of interest. Enjoy reading, don't do it for learnings sake. Also carry on with apples and pears, it's good.

3. you, or the school, look into to see if it's affordable (£80 home use), can't recommend it enough

4. Try to find a way of writing at home, e.g. a journal. Focus on ONE target at a time to correct and improve in her writing. Ignore all other errors until she meets a target and praise a lot, re-write corrected sections. I'd start with capital letters and full stops. Google reading/ writing targets online and help your DD pick a list to tick off as she meets them, help her be realistic in this.

5. Access all the free online resources out there, e.g. bbc phonics/ bitesize,

6. Talk to her teacher. Phonics does not work for every child! Experiment, maybe look/ cover/ write/ check works, tracing around words. Talk to her, do certain spellings stick, why? I have one boy who benefits from re-arranging given letters (magnetic plastic!) to learn spellings, another spelling games like, or even writing words in colours.

baby crying now... I hope I've been of some help

CinammonAndCaramel Mon 11-Feb-13 05:20:15

Thanks Cecilia.

She gets 1:1 like you mention from the class TA. It's only being withdrawn for 10 minutes to read ORT and then do flash cards which I've asked to stop.

But all the 1:1 from the class TA doesn't help either because they're not doing phonics. So they'll choose 3 words she spelt wrong and correct them and ask her to write them out 3 times - but those 3 words won't have anything in common. They won't show her the phenomena in the word, they'll just ask her to copy them out. And it does not help at all.

Absolutely no point in talking to the teacher. He's a Y5 teacher. He's never taught a child to read in his life. He has never been on a phonics training course.

I have had lots and lots and lots of talks with her teachers and SENCOs. Which is how I know they don't know what they're doing.

Phonics does work with DD, just school won't teach her that way sad

I'm well aware how much extra support DD needs but when the support they give her is bad for her because the school is not good at teaching children to read, what can I do?

CeceliaStrange Mon 11-Feb-13 09:18:57

units of sound (computer programme) is what I've had most success with with older children/ non-phonics trained staff (only so many...)

could she mentor younger children having phonic interventions? Infant staff have more phonic training generally, could she be talked up as a role model and take on the special job of helping as an official mentor/ reading buddy (and benefi herself from going back?)

also at home go right back and work through again each phase. ask this is what she does in 1-2-1 or

try to remember she's not behind as such, it looksage appropriate aside from a specific area of difficulty

CinammonAndCaramel Mon 11-Feb-13 09:37:14

It's a junior school, with no KS1, which is why they get away with still doing searchlight instead of phonics.

I could ask them to do phonics with her in 1:1 - but I don't trust them to do it.

If they fundamentally don't agree that phonics is the best way to teach children to read, they won't teach it properly.

I need her to stop being encouraged to guess, look at the first letters, look at the pictures, etc. And the only way I can do that is by stopping the 1:1 (although she'll still get that in guided reading)

She's had an awful lot of 1:1. It's only now that I've realised why it' not been helping......

Badvoc Mon 11-Feb-13 09:39:40

Like ops dd, my ds has what I would call gaps in his phonic knowledge.
I have been using apples and pears for spelling and grammar and handwriting with great success but that a can I use for phonics?
Can't really afford to buy a programme ATM letters and sounds a good resource?
Start from beginning? Straight to phase 5-6?

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