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Expected progress from end of r to end of y2

(80 Posts)
Iamnotminterested Mon 28-Jan-13 10:10:17

Is it 2 full levels or have I dreamt that up?


learnandsay Mon 28-Jan-13 21:21:57

Not in every school there aren't.

Tgger Mon 28-Jan-13 21:23:01

Well, I certainly will expect DS to progress between now and the end of Y2 and between Y3 and Y6. By Y3 I hope he can write fairly decently, by which I mean with good sentence structure, good spelling and good vocabularly- ie got the basics sussed and using them well (rather like his reading now). By Y6 I hope he is one of the 40% smile.

simpson Mon 28-Jan-13 21:23:57

My DC school have never had a child get a level 4 in KS1 before or a level 6 in KS2 but I went to a numeracy session at the school this afternoon and they have 2 kids due to sit level 6 this summer and 1 to sit a level 7....(in numeracy).

Feenie Mon 28-Jan-13 21:26:13

There isn't a level 7 test - they must mean level 7 teacher assessment. which is very impressive in Y6.

simpson Mon 28-Jan-13 21:26:26

Tgger - that's exactly what I want for DS (yr3) tbh...

Not sure yet about DD (too early) ATM my main concern is that she is not being too mean to her "best friend" grin

simpson Mon 28-Jan-13 21:27:50

Feenie - maybe, apparently this child is amazing. But English is not the child's first language so that is holding him back some what....

CaptainNancy Mon 28-Jan-13 21:29:41

Children use the principles of algebra from the start- when they're given sums such as "2 + ? = 3" they are using algebra to solve them- that's surely Reception (or nursery for some children).

No idea what learnandsay is trying to actually say re special measures.
I know a lot of schools, I've never come across one where KS1s don't get any 3s, perhaps not every year (depends on intake, v deprived authority), but some KS1 children will be appropriately working at that level.

Feenie Mon 28-Jan-13 21:29:55

Not so much, obviously!

simpson Mon 28-Jan-13 21:36:18

Feenie grin

CaptainNancy - thanks that makes sense now re algebra in reception...

This yr2 intake is lower academically than the last few years and there are still a good few level 3s predicted. I don't know how many obviously....

I don't know what the % of kids get level 3s in KS1 but in DS's year there were loads, not so many that got 3s in everything though....

mrz Mon 28-Jan-13 21:38:51

AbbyR1973 Mon 28-Jan-13 21:49:01

But surely the whole reason EYFS assessments are made in the first place is a demonstration that a school has added something to the child during that year. So you can demonstrate they have progressed against something during the year.
Therefore if a child were to enter reception working beyond EYFS at level 9 in most areas how will the school demonstrate externally that that child has progressed. That child does need a different scale on which to mark their achievements because EYFS means nothing to them, their parents or even their next teacher.
And why is it that such children "must have been hot-housed" and probably "not understand what they're doing." Why can't we give children more credit for their own abilities? Why can't we celebrate children for being clever in the same way we could talk proudly about any other talent they might have- musical/ artistic/sporting or anything else a child might be good at.

CaptainNancy Mon 28-Jan-13 21:51:55

That was really interesting, thanks mrz. I remember my DD as a R child, just taking so long to recognise patterns- they really foxed her, but once she got it, it really clicked for her. Need to experiment on my nursery child now... grin

yellowsubmarine53 Tue 29-Jan-13 06:12:56

An assessment at the beginning of Y1 will provide the data for the school to mark future progress against.

There's absolutely no need to have reception teachers using two different frameworks.

mrz Tue 29-Jan-13 07:44:30

If a child is exceeding the ELGs in reception they should be accessing the NC and would therefore be assessed against NC levels. In reality very few children are exceeding ELGs at the end of reception (not entry AbbyR)

simpson Tue 29-Jan-13 09:42:03

What is an ELG??

learnandsay Tue 29-Jan-13 09:43:03

I think they're early learning goals.

simpson Tue 29-Jan-13 09:48:33

Ah, thanks...

As mrz said I guess there will not be many kids exceeding them on entry to reception but it does not mean there aren't any at all iyswim.

If a school decide to assess a child using 2 methods (EYFS scores and NC levels) then I guess that's up to them.

It's not like a parent could demand the school do it (they could try but will not necessarily get it)...

learnandsay Tue 29-Jan-13 10:39:08

Aren't abbyr and mrz talking about two different things? Abbyr was talking about children entering reception already above EYFS and mrz implied that that is rare, because she says in reality few children leave reception above EYFS. (logically that means few could have entered above, unless they went backwards once the arrived at school, which some parents do claim.)

simpson Tue 29-Jan-13 10:52:23

I took it to mean that they were talking about the same thing, but that mrz implied that it is rare for a child to start reception on NC levels but not impossible.

Abby was saying that if they have finished EYFS scores (at the beginning of reception) then of course they should be assessed on NC levels.

IMO of course there are going to be kids leaving reception above EYFS (and I believe a significant amount in my DD's class this year, but not in all areas obviously) and even some starting reception above EYFS but it is rarer (especially in more than one area)...

Tgger Tue 29-Jan-13 14:15:43

"And why is it that such children "must have been hot-housed" and probably "not understand what they're doing." Why can't we give children more credit for their own abilities? Why can't we celebrate children for being clever in the same way we could talk proudly about any other talent they might have- musical/ artistic/sporting or anything else a child might be good at. "

Because, I think a lot of us (me included) don't like to label children at age 4 or 5.

Children are to a certain extent products of their environment so they may not have been "hot-housed" but they may have been around stimulating grown ups who have given them lots of attention and hence stimulated their developement whereas other children may not have been. The child that hasn't may enter YR with a "lower" score but does this does not mean such a child is any less "clever".

It's actually a big problem in our society that bright kids from poorer backgrounds do less well than less bright kids from wealthier backgrounds. Why? And is it too late at 4/5 to catch up. Some say yes it is, but that's another debate. And having opened a can of worms I shall leave it there...

learnandsay Tue 29-Jan-13 14:24:32

I can think of lots of reasons why well off children do better. They've probably got better educated parents who can teach them things. They've probably got access to private tuition. They probably come from environments where education and learning is valued rather than frowned upon. Of course these are generalisations. The media loves talking about certain individuals from poor backgrounds who achieved lots at school and university. Another cliché is the successful entrepreneur who left school early.

Cat98 Tue 29-Jan-13 16:54:36

My ds is doing similar things to those learnandsay mentions, he's in reception. He hasn't been hot housed and I also resent the implication from some posters that a child like this must have been. He has obviously been given attention and stimulation. Clearly not a bad thing? Though I agree we need to be cautious about labelling as early years development isn't linear as I think someone else said, and it's perfectly possible that he will slow down, or lose interest in numeracy, or just that other children will catch up. And while him losing interest would be a shame, the other things wouldn't worry me - it's not a race or a competition, I just want him to reach his potential, whatever that may be...

Cat98 Tue 29-Jan-13 16:57:12

I mean the maths things learnandsay mentioned earlier in the thread btw.
Also, I do think it's a shame if an able child isn't extended, even in reception, but I wouldn't get hung up on levels. For me, it's more about what ds is doing, is he happy, is he learning something.. Plenty of time for levels.

Iamnotminterested Tue 29-Jan-13 16:59:36

Gosh this has been busy!

So, as mrz said, 2 full levels over the key stage. That's all I wanted to know.

ipadquietly Tue 29-Jan-13 23:24:20

I have just received notification from my LEA that, following the introduction of the new EYFS curriculum, expected KS1 progress will be :
Y1 October - June .......4 points progress
Y2 entry - June ....... 5 points progress

I quote:
'For the average pupil:
Expected progress is 9 points from the end of October in Y1 to end of June in Y2. With the assumption that 3 points are achieved prior to entry the expected 12 points would be gained over the key stage.'

And if you understand how and when in September and October those 3 points are going 'to be gained', could you share it with me please? grin

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