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Stop Schools Cheating Please

(453 Posts)
twiggles Sun 20-Jan-13 11:17:02

Whatever your child is like, some primary schools and nurseries are pretending children start off at the low end, so they can pretend to inspectors of private and state schools that the child has developed only because of their teaching. If your child's advanced , some schools in rich areas take it out on the child. They won't bother giving the child attention, because the child's advanced, so they let the child coast downwards. But they give reports in writing about the child that pretend the child has started off at a low point in development and then got much better because of the teaching at the school....when the fact is the child was able to read or write when the child started at the school and as the school is giving the child little attention, the child has coasted downwards. Tha's what many schools do so they can pretend they've developed everything in the child, they want all children to be the same standard, like a photocopier. Poor children. Some teachers admit they're cheating and don't take the reports seriously and write them to impress inspectors. This is happending all over the show and I can't understand why inspectors are allowing them to get away with it. If parents start grading teachers in the school every three months the teachers won't be able to hide what's going on to the inspectors and teachers who are pretending might stop. Teachers that aren't giving inspectors the facts need to be stopped...they're not giving children an honest education.

LynetteScavo Sun 20-Jan-13 12:25:41

OP, if you are speaking from personal experience of your child, I suggest you move schools or home educate.

Sam100 Sun 20-Jan-13 12:31:38

No school in their right mind wants to hold the more able pupils back as one of the measures that ofsted look at is "added value". This means that at the end of the key stage a pupil has achieved more than the expected level of progress. So in ks1 pupils achieving a level 3 rather than 2. Then when that pupil goes into ks2 they should leave ks2 with a level 5 rather than a 4 etc etc. these levels are individual to the child and not the cohort so every teacher must work with the child's own levels and not the class as a whole. Also schools are measured in the achievement of certain key groups within the year. These include "free school meals" but also another group is "high achievers". Failing to make expected levels of progress with this group will also reflect badly on the school.

Some parents have unrealistic opinions of winkthe abilities of their children. Most schools are continually assessing the children - they do not clear a ks level until they can confidently do ALL of the steps in that level. It is possible that your child is far along in some areas but is missing the basics in other areas.

IHeartKingThistle Sun 20-Jan-13 12:32:12

As a recent ex secondary teacher, sadly I have to agree with a lot of the OP. One of the reasons I left was the expectation that I would essentially lie on my reports to make it look as though the student had achieved their target. I would inherit classes every year, from primary and from other teachers within the school, who just could not produce work at the level that their previous teacher had put them down as. So I marked accurately and had to cope with poor performance data and fallout from parents, not to mention demoralised teenagers. The whole situation made me feel sick to be honest.

IHeartKingThistle Sun 20-Jan-13 12:33:14

Just to add, I don't agree that able pupils are intentionaly held back though.

mrz Sun 20-Jan-13 12:35:39

Isn't the OP says the complete opposite to you IHeartKingThistle?

teacherwith2kids Sun 20-Jan-13 12:37:07

Ah, IHeart, that is a slightly different situation and one I would view with more sympathy - that in fact through the pressure of targets teachers / schools OVERstate the levels that a child is working at [though coaching for SATs or simply through 'optimistic' viewings of work], and with so much linked so strongly to absolute results I would say that some of this does occur.

The OP states that the process of UNDERstating the level at which an able child is working is endemic, and I would say that is not true in my experience.

twiggles Sun 20-Jan-13 12:40:03

I see there are teachers on this thread. The point I'm making is a serious one and needs to be dealt by inspectors. I haven't said whether or not I'm a teacher, it is of no consequence. I've drawn attention to the cheating that's going on in some schools. It's an open secret that there's cheating in some schools. A teacher afraid of being graded may be a teacher who thinks they may get some low grades. A good teacher would be given good grades by parents.... and if parents grade teachers it might help stop those teachers who are getting away with pretending...teachers doing it wouldn't be able to hide so easily.

IHeartKingThistle Sun 20-Jan-13 12:41:33

Oops, maybe should have read it more carefully! I guess it is the other way round but the process of basically falsifying records is what chimed with me.

Must not MN and try to design a bathroom at the same time grin

Feenie Sun 20-Jan-13 12:42:21

I've drawn attention to the cheating that's going on in some schools. It's an open secret that there's cheating in some schools.

Evidence please of 'some' schools. Or we just cannot take you seriously at all.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sun 20-Jan-13 12:43:11

Just spoke to dh who is a teacher and he said it sounds likely. Maybe not in all cases but some

teacherwith2kids Sun 20-Jan-13 12:44:54


Why are you suggesting that this should be done by parents (who in the main do not know anything about education other than having been at schools themselves) rather than by qualified professionals? I am already observed and graded with the frequency that you suggest by members of the management team and by e.g. schoiol improvement partners, and then at longer intervals by Ofsted.

Do you think that patients should observe and grade surgeons? People with bank accounts observe financiers? People who live in houses grade architects / structural engineers? Passengers grade airline pilots? Why is the view of the amateur so valuable in teaching while we would not consider it in other areas of life?

mrz Sun 20-Jan-13 12:46:23

I don't think any teacher is afraid of being graded by someone who knows what they are talking about and hasn't an axe to grind twiggles. In fact it happens to all teachers on a regular basis.

teacherwith2kids Sun 20-Jan-13 12:47:30

Inspectors, btw, do consider evidence of entry levels and progress, and do take it extremely seriously, scouring books and files of work for the evidence that the data they are given is based on. No 'parent jury' is required, it is happening already....

teacherwith2kids Sun 20-Jan-13 12:52:31

Also, there is a parent questionnaire for every inspection, and a parent panel meets the inspectors. If you have a specific concern, then write to Ofsted. There are plenty of routes to deal with a specific issue, and the precise issue that you describe is NOT endemic so a specific case-by-case approach is appropriate.
- Speak to the head.
- Raise the issue with governors in the correct form.
- Send it to Ofsted as a complaint.
- Feed back to ofsted using the quationnaire when your school is inspected.

A new nation-wide approach to solve the problem your child encounters in your school is the ultimate sledgehammer to crack a nut scenario.

41notTrendy Sun 20-Jan-13 12:54:05

I would be interested to know what you are basing this all on?
It's complete tosh anyway, but, let's pretend you have some well researched evidence.

Feenie Sun 20-Jan-13 12:55:31

Mostly agree with teacherwith2kids, but would add to the list:

- Speak to the head.
- Raise the issue with governors in the correct form.
- Send it to Ofsted as a complaint.
- Feed back to ofsted using the quationnaire when your school is inspected.
- Stop saying it is endemic in most schools and an open secret because it makes you sound like a paranoid loon.

LynetteScavo Sun 20-Jan-13 12:59:13

But I, as a parent tend to be biases towards teachers I don't particularly like personally. DS1's teacher last year was a real meany. If I'd had to grade her after three/6 months, it would have been a low grade. But I could see at the end of the year why she is so well respected. She really brings children along, even if her moto is "I'm not here to be your friend."

twiggles Sun 20-Jan-13 12:59:50

There are some teachers on this seems a nerve has been hit. I've not said whether or not I'm a teacher, it's of no consequence. I've highlighted a serious issue. It's not new that there's cheating going on in schools so they look good for the inspectors. It's been in the news. I'm simply underlining one of the ways in which some teachers ap[pear to be cheating so they look good on paper.

LynetteScavo Sun 20-Jan-13 13:00:14

Same with DS2's Y2 teacher..she was lovely. But I thought he wasn't learning anything all year. Actually he was, but I didn't realise until the end of the year.

Feenie Sun 20-Jan-13 13:01:59

It's been in the news.

A single shred of evidence/link please?


mrz Sun 20-Jan-13 13:03:58

twiggles if you were a teacher you would know teachers are graded every step of the way ...

It's been in the news when? where? any links?

Marking down your pupils does not make you look good! Keeping every child at the same level would set off alarms all the way to Mr Wilshaw

teacherwith2kids Sun 20-Jan-13 13:04:31

Twiggles, please cite your evidence. Based on how many children, in how many schools?

teacherwith2kids Sun 20-Jan-13 13:06:00

Rwiggles could be a teacher in a private school, of course - I do not believe that they are observed / inspected in quite the same way or with the same rigour in some cases?

twiggles Sun 20-Jan-13 13:11:36

One of you suggest that parents know nothing about education. I would ask you to think again. As a teacher, are you saying that you have a good degree, a 2.1 or first, at a good university and that you have a further degree in Education, which is the standard in some countries in other countries?

Parents bring up their children and are likely to know more about their children than anyone else. Many of them have experience in a great deal of ways and may be far better qualified in education and other ways than any of the teachers they come across.

Feenie Sun 20-Jan-13 13:12:28


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