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my child reads and write at top level, but her Phonics group is not!!!

(349 Posts)
B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 15:12:22

My daughter is a very bright child at Y1...she is reading and writing very well...however when it came to grouping them, she is not been located in the top group in Phonics, although she reads the same level and writes the same as those children on the top group. This is very confusing for her amd me, as I dont understand on what basis this happened. She can be at times shy and she observes her peers very well and learn from them as she is bi-lingual. In the gropu she is in now, the difference between the level she reads and the level of some other children is huge...perhaps 7 colour reading band!!!

This has affecte dmy childs confidence as she thinks she hasnt been good enough, or why she is reading the same book as her reading partner, and he/she is in another group. ALl confusing for me, I am gonna talk to the teacher tomorrow, and I dont know how to say it. i dont want to convey that I dont trust their judgment, but this is gonna hold my child back and crashes her confidence, as the groups are gonna stay the same until the end of teh year! Can I ask the teacher to move my child to the other group? Is Phonics the knowledge that they learn to apply to their writing and reading, so how can she read and write higher than her phonics knowledge? She is already reading sounds that she has not been officially taught, by working it out on herself....

IndigoBelle Mon 10-Dec-12 15:30:18

It is perfectly possible to read well and not be good at phonics.

She will have been given a phonics test, not a reading test to determine her phonics group.

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 15:35:31

Yes, b4r4, you have in many ways answered your own question. Phonics can have elements of its own specialist subject about it. And as you put it quite well, there are children who know more about "how phonics works" than other children do. The children who know more might not be able to read books as complicated as a child who knows less about phonics but the one who knows more about phonics will be able to answer phonics related questions better.

Of course you might not think being able to answer phonics related questions matters at all (if you can read really well.) I don't think it matters because I can read really well and I can't answer any phonics related questions! But you and I are not school teachers and you and I are not education secretaries and they think that it does matter, (even if you can already read well.) Personally I think that's silly. But that's just my view.

If I was you (and I wanted my daughter to be a phonics whiz, which I don't, but you seem to) I'd teach myself all about phonics and then help my daughter to learn anything that she doesn't already know. And I'd give her phonics quizzes at supper time and write little phonics questions on cards and place them under her pillow. Or you could tell her it's all nonsense and to stop worrying about it, (my preferred option.)

Farewelltoarms Mon 10-Dec-12 15:54:53

My child is in y1 and wouldn't have a clue which group she is in, let alone allow it affect her confidence. If I were you my beef would be with the teacher for allowing it to be clear which group is at what level.
Or is it possible that you're the one who has told her she's not in the 'top' phonics group?

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 17:15:48

How do you know which group she is in and where did you get your detailed knowledge of the ability of other members of her class?

jelliebelly Mon 10-Dec-12 17:19:09

How on earth do you know so much about groups and classmates ability? I obv live in blissful ignorance! Phonics and reading often v diff ability ime.

B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 17:39:32

Thank all for your replies. My child is friend with many other kids and when going play dates they read! Mine doesn't stop reading on a train as she sees people with their paper all the time. I have not told her she is not in top group at all as I didn't know they were grouped! She is asking why is she not in the same group as the rest of her friends who are reading and writing the same books! I don't lime to teach her at home ahead of her class and I will never do it! She does her homework at home when they have and reads!
My main concern was that the groups stay the same unt the end of the year! And she being herself knows and sees what some other kids are reading by saying that he/she reads "Sid did it" book, mum that's too easy!

simpson Mon 10-Dec-12 17:40:36

Maybe she is remembering words as a whole or working certain words out herself according to the context of the sentence or even the pictures in the book.

She may well understand what she has read and answer comprehension type questions but does not work out the words phonetically so is in a lower group...

I would ask the teacher how you can help with this and maybe which sounds she is weaker in...

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 17:55:02

Neither you nor your daughter knows the criteria the teacher has used to organise groups they may not be grouped by ability

Hulababy Mon 10-Dec-12 18:01:32

You can by all means speak to the teacher to ask how phonics work, and maybe even ask how the groups are decided, and how your DD is at phonics.

However, being able to read doesn't always mean a child is good at phonics. Maybe, following assessments in school, the teacher has discovered a gap in your DD's phonics knowledge and feels she needs to place her in the group that will fill those gaps effectively.

The groups should not be static. How do you know they won't change? When we still did phonics grouping (no longer do as of this half term) we changed them half termly at a minimum based on the most recent assessments of each child.

There is, imo and ime, no way being in a slightly lower group for phonics will hold a child back. It also shouldn't knock their confidence if handled appropriately.

B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 19:05:10

The teacher said each group has a program until the end of the year and those started higher remain further ahead . That's exactly what I don't understand. It shouldn't be a linear process. My child might develop a higher capacity in a few weeks to take more in, even if there is a gap in her phonics now. Given her advanced reading and writing. How can I put this right?

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 19:22:19

If you think it will help you can turn your daughter into a phonics expert at home.

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 19:23:23

I would be very concerned about the teacher

B4r4joon Mon 10-Dec-12 19:26:24


learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 19:27:40

Which teacher would you be concerned about?

Northernlurker Mon 10-Dec-12 19:29:42

OP - your child is in Year 1. Her feelings about the school come from you. If she feels she is in a lower group and that's knocked her confidence then that's because of your reaction. SO wind your neck in please.

Do you appreciate how frankly daft you sound to be making a fuss about this? Is your child learning? Does she understand what's expected of her at school? If the answer to those questions is yes then you're fine. In mant sensible countries she wouldn't even be in full time education yet.

Please don't make a foll of yourself demanding she move groups. Save that for when she's 14 at least.

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 19:32:31

Northern, the OP isn't making a fuss. She's concerned for her daughter's self confidence and is asking advice. And she's not demanding anything. So, you wind your own neck in!!

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 19:37:20

The teacher who said each group had a program until the end of the year and those who started higher would remain further ahead, learnandsay.

simpson Mon 10-Dec-12 19:49:37

I would also be very concerned tbvh.

About the fact that a child cannot move from group to group, groups (if the class have them) should be very fluid at this age...

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 19:52:53

And as mums, both of you, what would you do with that concern?

Northernlurker Mon 10-Dec-12 19:55:52

Learnandsay - she said she will talk to the teacher tomorrow and ask that her daughter move groups. This is apparently because in the parent's opinion her brilliance isn't being catered for. I call that making a 'fuss'.

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 19:59:49

I would ask the teacher if it is the school's policy to set a ceiling on children's progress/achievement.

mrz Mon 10-Dec-12 20:00:39

I would not ask if my child could move groups ...but I would be unhappy that there were groups in the first place.

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 20:05:11

But the school/teacher is not going to change its group policy on the basis of an unhappy parent. So, isn't moving groups a more practical outcome?

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 20:07:32

Northern, if you're talking about the first posting in this thread she asked could she ask for her daughter to be moved.

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