# Talk

## Which tables does a child have to know for level 2a and 3c in maths?

(28 Posts)
NorhamGardens Sun 09-Dec-12 10:11:10

Had a look on line but not sure which tables the average child at the end of KS1 is expected to know - fluently and the associated division facts etc?

I think a child needs to know 5 & 10 & 2 for level 2a in maths?

Tue 11-Dec-12 19:31:38

I spent ages last year droning on and on about the handy place holder who pushes everyone back into the right column, that 'add a zero' is incorrect maths vocab etc etc, then played that song and my entire class looked at me to see if I was going to bleed from the ears.

mrz Tue 11-Dec-12 18:49:02

I think you need to teach the concept of zero as a place keeper at the same time

Tue 11-Dec-12 18:42:25

I don't like Percy's 'just add a zero' idea, though. I think he's great, but that lyric winds me up.

mrz Tue 11-Dec-12 18:00:40

They had lots of experience of counting in 2s, 5s and 10s in reception and Y1 and most understood multiplication as repeated addition /arrays before we began.
We used Percy Parker sing your times tables every morning starting with 10X followed by the 1 minute challenge so no secret just repetition and highly motivated children.

gabsid Tue 11-Dec-12 17:50:55

mrz - so what are your best tips for learning them? What's your secret?

mrz Tue 11-Dec-12 17:29:03

They were a very enthusiastic and competitive (still are) class whose idea of a treat for working hard was a maths test a few had supportive parents.

mrz Tue 11-Dec-12 17:25:34

No learnandsay the Y2 children in question knew all their tables without any energy saving devices.
They were given 50 randomly generated calculations to complete for each table in 1 minute and if they achieved 50/50 3 times they were given 50 mixed multiplication and division questions for the same table in 1 minute ...all correct they were given a certificate.

gabsid Tue 11-Dec-12 13:57:03

Although, I think DS remember the 2s table by doubling.

gabsid Tue 11-Dec-12 13:55:42

I am doing timestables with my DS (Y3) at the moment. We did 2,5 and 10 last year and now in Y3 we have done 3, 4, 6 and doing 7 now.

Learning the smaller tables was hardest, now with the 6 and 7 it gets easier each time because he can see the pattern, e.g 7x6=42 and when we got to the 7table he knew 6x7 is also 42.

We also have songs, rhymes or stories with it, so 2 min in the morning and 2 min in the evening and they are solid pretty soon.

I am not a big fan of finger tricks, adding or doubling etc with tables - we just learn them until they are solid, end of.

learnandsay Mon 10-Dec-12 07:38:01

morefront, mrz will tell you herself, no doubt. But I think she has a slight energy saving device when it comes to tables, which I'm sure other people have thought of too, where 4xtable is 2xdoubled, likewise with 5x& 10x. I don't know if 7x is 4x&3x but if it is then presumably one only has to learn about half the times tables. I've never tried such time saving myself. But it sounds interesting.

MoreFrontThanBrighton Mon 10-Dec-12 04:17:05

Wow Mrz in 12 years of teaching I have never seen a year 2 class where the majority knew their times tables 1-12 by the end of the year. That must have been an exceptional cohort with very supportive parents!

As they move up the school they need to develop all methods of learning them: counting up (5, 10, 15, 20), saying the words (three fives are fifteen) and knowing that 5x3 = 5+5+5 = 15.

I have year 6s who can count up accurately, but they'd be able to work much faster if they 'knew the words'.

They also need to be able to apply the inverse operations.
3x5=15
5x3=15
15/3=5
15/3=3
Arrays are good for illustrating this. Set out counters/sweets/cars/anything in 3 rows of 5. That's also 5 columns of 3. There are 15 in all, etc.

mrz Sun 09-Dec-12 21:48:41

It helps if children understand that multiplication is repeated addition
so 3x2 is the same as 2+2+2

expansivegirth Sun 09-Dec-12 21:43:29

lovely learnandsay!
thanks for info mrz

mrz Sun 09-Dec-12 21:22:30

In reception and Y1 children normally learn to count in 2s, 5s & 10s so they are ready for tables in Y2.

learnandsay Sun 09-Dec-12 21:19:39

expansive, I don't know how teachers do it, but at home I do it with my four year old in pretty much the way you describe with the coins. We don't call them times tables. We call it a number journey. The destination is the bottom end of the sitting room. When we leave the top end we have to knock on the wall to ask permission to enter the magic forest from the wicked witch. Then we can enter and leave two lego blocks. This repetitive process takes place until we have 24 blocks in neat rows of two. And each successive addition involves a ritual where I pretend I don't know how many blocks there now are and my daughter informs me. And then we have to count them (just to check.) My daughter loves it. I don't think that she knows that they're times tables as such, but she asked me today when we're going to play it again because we haven't played it for a long while.

expansivegirth Sun 09-Dec-12 21:05:40

when I ask 'when kids learn' i am referring to year one children.

expansivegirth Sun 09-Dec-12 21:05:16

when kids learn times tables, how do they normally learn them?

as:

2, 4, 6, 8, 10 (as I heard some kids in the school reciting the other day)

or

once two is two
twice two is four

and is there a simple way of explaining the concept of tables

e.g. getting two coins, and then adding another set of two and then a third set of two etc.

Thanks!

Sun 09-Dec-12 13:51:15

The national strategies says that Year 3 children should know their 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, 6x and 10x

Derive and recall multiplication facts for the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 10 times-tables and the corresponding division facts; recognise multiples of 2, 5 or 10 up to 1000
From here

TheNebulousBoojum Sun 09-Dec-12 10:59:30

Although they are expected to know all their tables and the associated division facts by the end of Y4, so perhaps some of the more able Y2 are getting a head start on that.

mrz Sun 09-Dec-12 10:50:45

Exactly, if a child knows their tables and can apply them they can answer quickly.

NorhamGardens Sun 09-Dec-12 10:44:49

Many thanks, so tables aren't relevant to NC levels as such/not a specific criteria? Just a tool to help.

mrz Sun 09-Dec-12 10:39:45

In Y2 if a child knows their 2,5 & 10 X tables I would allow them to choose which table to learn next most of my previous class knew all their tables to 12 in Y2

NorhamGardens Sun 09-Dec-12 10:34:37

Thanks, that's very helpful. Our school seems to be keen on children knowing tables in Y2 (beyond 2,5,10). It's a state school. E.g. some children in Y2 have target to learn 6 times tables this term. Just wondering if it was on some tick list for a level 2a or 3c etc. That document you linked to is great.

mrz Sun 09-Dec-12 10:28:56

Not really children would be expected to use what they know ... so for 4x use 2x twice and 20x use 2x then 10x ...