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What's needed to move.from a 2a to 3c in writing?

(57 Posts)
numbum Sat 24-Nov-12 14:47:59

Just curious really. I've scrambled my brain trying to work it out for myself using online grids.

Can any teachers (or anyone else in the know) simplify it for me?

Djwkin Sun 25-Nov-12 14:22:56

I can see that a 3c is a level 2a that is sustained, independent and shown in a range of contexts, and that this move can be effected fairly quickly. 3c to 3b/a does take longer though.

mrz Sun 25-Nov-12 14:26:35

It's another problem with the whole neat progression concept.

Djwkin Sun 25-Nov-12 14:29:16


numbum Sun 25-Nov-12 14:55:32

So if my DD does what she's doing now but in different context (posters, letters, poems, diary entries etc), then she'd be a 3c?

And if she progresses according to the 'recommended' progression she should be a 3a/4c when she starts KS2?

That scares me tbh sad, but I don't know why!

mrz Sun 25-Nov-12 15:00:44

I don't think many 7 year olds have the maturity to write at a level 4 which after all is the expected level for 11 year olds.

numbum Sun 25-Nov-12 15:06:52

So she'll probably stagnate for a while I imagine then. Can I be the first MNer to say I hope she doesn't move up levels for a year (but still retains her love for writing obviously!) grin

mrz Sun 25-Nov-12 15:10:35

I doubt she will stagnate but she might spend some time consolidating skills and developing others.

learnandsay Mon 26-Nov-12 17:08:13

Where does maturity fit in? Isn't the assessment of what's level 4 and what isn't a technical one? There seem to be a list of criteria and if it's met then it's level 4 and if it isn't it isn't.

mrz Mon 26-Nov-12 18:12:44

learnandsay the point is most 7 year olds lack the maturity to achieve the technical aspects of what constitutes a level 4 ...

simpson Mon 26-Nov-12 19:49:46

Mrz - that is exactly what my DS's teacher said at parents eve about maturity etc...

He is currently working at a 3c (yr3) and working towards a 3b which in writing seems quite tough tbh.

He needs to be using lots of words with "feelings" and words that set the mood for what he is writing. His punctuation and spelling is both very good as is his actual handwriting.

Very interested to read about a child who has a higher target than the "expected level" may not make 3sub levels of progress(it does make sense though) as DD is targeted a 1a for the end of reception....

TalkinPeace2 Mon 26-Nov-12 20:03:38

Q What's needed to move.from a 2a to 3c in writing
A Time and variable genetics

learnandsay Mon 26-Nov-12 20:22:05

Interestinger and interestinger... I've read elsewhere about specific ten year olds being unable to write descriptively. I'm pretty sure prosaic description involves a purely teachable methodology. But writing about feelings? Well, there's an element of straightforward description in writing about feelings too. There must be an attribute or attributes to level 4 writing which go beyond that. Can anybody point a few out to me?

Morebiscuitsplease Mon 26-Nov-12 21:21:28

I thought pupils were expected to make 2 sub levels of progress a year..not 3!

Feenie Mon 26-Nov-12 21:23:20

That's in KS2, Morebiscuits.

simpson Mon 26-Nov-12 21:54:42

Feenie - do you mean KS1?? Or am I being thick blush?? <<highly probable>>

I thought a child in KS2 was supposed to make one whole level (3 sub levels in 2 years)...

mrz Mon 26-Nov-12 22:03:36

The expected progress is 2 full levels over each key stage in primary but many schools set their own targets of 2 sub levels per year in KS2 ...

Feenie Mon 26-Nov-12 22:04:03

Too make good progress (which most schools now target - as opposed to expected/satisfactory), KS1 children have to make 3 sublevels progress in one year, and KS2 children have to make 2.

simpson Mon 26-Nov-12 22:23:51

Gosh,that is a lot for KS2 IMO.

Although having said that DS (yr3) is targeted at 3a for the end of the yr (he is now a 3c) and I feel it might be too high for him (in writing only).

He did have to make 3 sub levels of progress in KS1....

Tgger Tue 27-Nov-12 20:50:23

Ooo, clearly I am a dinosaur as I am not interested in these numbers or levels shock. DS (Y1) is "above age related" in writing and that'll do for me. Perhaps I will be eating my hat in a couple of years, we shall see. I have seen how much his writing has improved since Reception so I'm happy. He wrote me a story tonight just before tea. It came to rather an abrupt end, but then tea was ready smile.

simpson Tue 27-Nov-12 21:38:37

As a parent I am not bothered about levels too much as long as my DC are progressing.

But his teacher has given me ideas (which are easy to do at home) to help him move from a 3c to a 3b and I am happy to help her....(in writing - without actually writing)...

mam29 Tue 27-Nov-12 21:48:04

Im having issues with writing levels.

basically picked up dds book from old school.

one writing book at her writing from

year 1
year 2-term 1

at back was typed up forms that looked like kind of grid.

The things dd had achieved were highlighted.
then at bottom corner as grade 1bsad

I was gutted as did lots of writing with dd over summer
she got 1b end of year 1 assumuming assessment done june/july.

new teachers looked at it today told me not to worry she doubts its accuracy but hasent got enough written work as yet shes week 4ne school to regrade yet. reason she doubts is year2carbon copy of whats highlighted in year 1.

dds freind whos still at old school got 1a end of year 1 and her mum was told at parents evening 2eeks ago her child as currently sitting at 2b. I have seen her dds writing its very messy I know its more about neatness just all seems bit odd that her dd made 2sublevel progress in 8weeks and mines made none they were same class same teacher.

Im tryin g not o stress over it I can see her writings improved just not showing on grades just concerened more as shes year 2 and sats this year.

simpson Tue 27-Nov-12 22:12:03

Had your friends child gone from a 1a end of last school year to a 2b now??

If that is the case I would be a bit hmm tbh....

DS made the usual 3 sub levels from yr1-2...

mam29 Tue 27-Nov-12 22:26:48

yes simpson freinds dd is july birthday she belives shes gifted,

They were different classes last year-diffrent teachers.

They then combined classes in year 2

my dd was bottom table for literacy.

she got 36/40 in year 1phonics group so was same phonics group as freinds dd.
At end of term one my dd was just one reading level behind hers.

her dd got 2c reading, 1 a writing.

my dd got 1b in everything-schools target was 1a so slightly below.

This means dd had to climb 3sublevels to reach required 2b.

over summer

we wrote poems
she kept holiday diary
she even wrote and illustrated her own book
started writing letters to penpal
played scrabble

I even read letts revision guide to keystage 1 writing for idea.

she used correct punctuation capital letters, fullstops
her spellings not dire she spells phonetically so often wrong
she can write length peices whole page of a4 in year 2.
shes got neater, can use joined up writing.

There wasent huge amount given in folder most of the stuff was reception and year 1.

freinds dd had parenst evening 2weeks ago and was told her dd was at 2b already . she had rcently been over our house in half term as freind needed babysitter as was working and her writing was really bad. Im thinking maybe its her vocabulary thats wider?

seems huge 3sublevel gap with her dd climing 2sublevels in 1 term 8weeks.

new teachers doubts its accuracy ad thinks year 2teacher just copied what year 1teacher had put.

dds just starting 4th week and new teachers had to chase up school to send records and then they said they asses 1st week back of new term which dd had left at that point started new school after half term and only told her the grades from year 1. I had to chase them for exercise books.

new school seems to have diffrent veiw of her reading and maths and thinks they better than old school.

they both state primaries same lea.

got meeting with new teacher 2weeks time so hoping by then she have time to asses and will see if shes made any progress as over summer did extra maths, writing and reading.

learnandsay Wed 28-Nov-12 08:53:19

simpson, doesn't that depend on what one means by progressing? If there is no record of what has been achieved so far then how can progression be observed? Then there's relative progression.

I see what you mean in a way. (But you do understand how the levels are calculated, whereas some people don't. So, for you it's a choice.)

Sub levels are a teacher's tool. And if a parent doesn't know what's in a particular sub level then how can the knowledge of the sub level be useful? But sometimes raw data is useful. (Shoppers often don't know how nutritional information on packaging is calculated. But they can still compare packets.) If the consumer/parent doesn't understand the data she can still use it as a rule of thumb/rough guide.

mam29 Wed 28-Nov-12 09:01:55

im just baffled how in 1term year 2 1 childs made 2sublevel progression and my dd made nonesad. They same flipping class teacher different literacy tables. unless just like maths and spellings they set the bottom groups easier stuff and less of it hence why wasent enough evidence to show prigression.

Hoping new school will have suitable strategy as right now im worried she wont even get level 2 in year 2sats.

new school has handwriting group.
been told old school now has even more homework including handwriting.

Their last ofsted did list writing as weak reason I focussed on it during hols.

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