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Oftsted reports-How do you decipher the important bits?

(11 Posts)
mam29 Wed 10-Oct-12 11:28:50

I studying 3school osfted reports

2from current school
1 from school im considering.

Out of all of it I guess the teachings the most important section.

but of course its a snapshot of the teaching they see on the 2days the visit.

but both reports talk about

attainment levels-does this mean sats or end of year grades for each keystage?

current one says writing an issue and this was mentioned in ofsted before in 2009.

current school ofsted was this year 2012, other ofsted was 2011 and heard frameworks changed hence why current school got downgraded but even with criteria changed im thinking the teaching part and attaintment should be broady the same format .

if crteria changed how do you make good omparisoon of 2diffrent school reports

current school says doesnt push kids to reach higher levels.
inconsitsant
poor lesson planning
not great at catering for wide range abilities/

other school says schools good at helping struggling kids from other schools reach the level they need to reach.

other school was graded as good last year.
against current satisfactory even previous 2009 report which was good had some issues with the teaching section which i feel have been replicated in current ofsted which means since 2009-2012 inspection nots much has changed in these areas.

I have looked at sats but last published results show

fall in % on reading last 5years but overall %improvement overall last few years mostly at level 4.

other school is slightly lower %but ofsted seems to rate its teaching and attainment levels more.

current school has numerous action plans and seems to be making lot of noise about improving.
but wondering how long it will take them as 1parent said if i was year 5/6 parent this year i be very unhappy as not enough time for them to make impact for their child.

school seem to be sending out loads of info.
they had info evening last night.
but genrally they quite restrictive and controlling over info to parents.

admission Wed 10-Oct-12 12:45:14

Whilst the two latest Ofsted reports are probably on different frameworks they probably are going to be reasonably comparable. The previous 2009 report is now probably a bit long in the tooth but could be useful, as you have done, in picking up continuing themes of concern.
It could be that the current school has a point that the 2009 good translates into the 2012 satisfactory grade overall but my reaction would be that this says that the school has not actually made any significant strides forward between 2009 and 2012. If the inspection was now, since September , it would not be considered satisfactory but requires improvement.
Many schools have issues over writing, so I would not get to hung up over that.
The school that got good in 2011 but has lower results may be because the attainment, which is how much progress children are making, is better than than the other school but they are starting from a much lower starting point of capability of the children when they enter school at 4 /5, hence actual level of achievement is less.
Having said that the best possible thing you can do is go and see both schools. Ask to go in and see the schools in action, not on a set up open day but on a normal teaching day. The reaction to this request may well tell you a lot about the schools even before you get to see them. Go with your gut reaction as to which school will suit your child better, most of the time you are right.

redskyatnight Wed 10-Oct-12 13:10:18

Do the reports mention anything about the profile of the children entering the school. DS's school gets very average SATs but has a "below average" profile which I always felt meant their SATs results were actually good iyswim.

I'd actually be concerned that writing was picked up in 2 reports - DD's last Ofsted highlighted that teaching of writing was a concern - leading to the school really focussing on improving it. Might be worth asking the HT (of both schools) how they are planning to address areas of concern?

mam29 Wed 10-Oct-12 13:24:12

Thanks admission thats really helpful

dd current school was inspected summer term as satisfactory.

It was then followed by church inspection and deemed satisfactory in terms of re teaching.

in 2009 it was rated good.

Oftsed say current school -kids start at 4-5 level they need to be.

other school visited

like the feel
more enrichment and extra currcular activities
smaller but less facilities.
Oftsted rated good in 2011
church report-good
new school coe

current school rc

we are noth catholic though.
current school 15mins

new school good 30mins and out catchemnt so no guarantee on 2youngers iblings.

sibling 2 at preschool next door to current school so 2 school runs

dd settled with freinds in current school but struggling.
seems unhappier in year 2.
people say wait longer

but could risk

I enquired over summer after bad year 1 thinking there wouldent be any places.

Not looked at other schools locally. feel we need smaller school benefit dd and this schools just 5classes mixed year groups.

current schools 10classes mixed year groups 45 1half intake a year and new schools just 20.

just not finding the sats and ofted very useful.
more confusing

but do like new school
and not happy with lots things current one.

but im sick of stressing over it.

can see current schools trying well seen to be doing stuff.

not sure if oftsted do follow up vists on satisafcatory thourght they did if special measures.

current schools not a bad school.
just unsure since reception if its good fit for dd.

There is very little difference in the progress made by the various groups of pupils,
because the school is very conscious of their individual needs. For example, the
school works very effectively to support pupils with special educational needs and/or
disabilities, those with particularly low levels of prior attainment and the very high
number who join the school mid–way through the school year. Detailed plans to
support these groups, coupled with thoughtful deployment of learning assistants and
timely interventions, ensure that they make similar progress to that of their
classmates.

extract from new school ofsted which makes me think dd moving mid trem there year 2 might be good.

They start from lower point at reception but seem to catch up not huge diffrenernce but current school sats are better but that doesnt mean ddm will neccesarily do well.

how do I find out value added?

mam29 Wed 10-Oct-12 13:47:55

Only sats I can find is 2009-wheres best place to find sats?

these were from local paper link

current school % that acheive level 4-no mention of 5 or 6

%english and maths 80%
%english 95%
%maths 80%
%science 95%
total 270? 270
pupils 40? I assume thats all the year 6s although fullintake is 45 unles 1 or 2 missed sats or got higher levels.

new school/

% english and maths 72%-8%difference is that huge?
english 78% so much wider gap of 17%!
maths- 89% so 9%higher and dd struggles with maths
science 89% 6%lower
total 256?
pupils 18-intake 20

Am I cirrect in thinking be easier to prepare 20year 6 kids for sats then 45?

my dd lower middle in current school older ones in year doing ok
youngets ones in year doing ok.

shes middle age group feb b day
middle ability

I think i read next sats results out december.
really need to make decision before half term.

mam29 Wed 10-Oct-12 14:21:44

Think I found something more rcent but says keystage 2 acheivemnt table.

says english and maths but does not include science says 2011

current english89%
maths 75%
combined english/maths 73%
value added
99.10

other potential new school

English 86%-so 3%lower
maths 93% one of top results in local area and 18%higher than current.
english and maths combined 86%

value added 100

have no idea what points refers to -anyone?

on paper new school ofsted and sats look slightly better.

things keeping me at current school-

they trying to improve-but how log will take, dd struggling and not gettinging additional support

close by, sibling attends preschool next door.

she has her freinds

lovley grounds and facilities. 11 lovley classrooms, large hall, 2big playgrounds, feild, garden, libary which she rarly goes in and ict suite being refurbished.

new school tiny victorian, no feild but does have village green to do pe, most classrooms portacabins, tiny hall, tiny libary, no ict suite. 2small yards-no guarnatee on sibling as we out of catchment.

I wish i was on mumsnet when we fist looked.

found website can rank them and surprising results as round her people chose schools based on reputation and some of the lesser thourght ones getting better results than my current school.

my dd went preschool, I loved look of it, had tour with head they seemed freindly, ofsted was good when applied.

I know academics not everything just trying to do right thing.

admission Wed 10-Oct-12 17:44:14

From an admission point of view, if it is an CoE school you are looking at and it is 30 minutes away, I would have to say to you that there is a danger that you might well miss out on younger siblings getting place. Mine you i could say the same about current RC school if was suddenly popular with baptised catholics.

If the school was satisfactory in summer term, then under the new Ofsted regime they will be inspected within two years. Church inspection is in effect around the religious aspects of the school, so not of any real value to you.

KS2 tables will be the % of pupils who achieved a level 4 in the KS2 tests in year 6. The maths % at the potential new school I would say was good, other figures are what I would expect for english. Also think in terms of %, cohort of 45, each pupil is just over 2%, cohort of 20, each pupil is worth 5%!

The value added is a calculation for all the pupils who took the tests which compares the level of progress each pupil would have been expected to make based on the KS1 test result, with the actual result. A figure of 100 says that on average all the pupils did what was expected of them. A figure of less than 100 says that some pupils did not progress as well as expected and a figure above says they did better. The figures do need to be viewed with some caution as the smaller the cohort of pupils the higher the level of potential error but with a cohort of 45, I would have said that 99.1% says that somewhere the school is not doing quite a good job as they could. The clue is in the Ofsted report you quoted in another early post, the school is not pushing its brighter pupils.

Having said that I am struggling to see what the attraction of the new school is. Results are not the best parameter to judge a school by. By your own admission parents are not going to schools that are getting better results than the "go to" schools for parents. That could mean the parent's local knowledge of school is compensating for lower results or it could well mean that parents have not cottoned onto the fact that the school is not as good as it should be. I actually inspect schools in Wales and this happens frequently in village schools, parents think they are good but actually they are not. From a distance and facilities point of view current school is better, so what is the attraction or is gut feeling?

mam29 Wed 10-Oct-12 18:19:03

current school-shes made very little progress.
started year 2 near bottom reading yet passed phonics no extra help with numeracy which shes struggling with.

the 75%mathsdoesnt surprise me as they seem to prioriterise litercay and assume kids know the basics.

its very competative amongst kids at current school.
dd very sensitive and has got upset as feels like she cant catch up.

curent school controlling over reading only allowe dto read so many pages book a night so taking ages. slow to move up levels.

year 2teacher is very strct and dd seems to clash with her.
I got told off by her teacher last week infront of dd.

dont feel like they listening to our concerns.

they have no after schools clubs
kids cant do music until they in year 5.

when looked at results was surprising some less desirble schools got better results than ours.

it is gut feel when viewed other school that it maybe better fit

not saying current schools bad as some in class do well just not dd.

if shes not academic thats fine but leasts other schools got more to do so be moreto do sports/music ect.

i went to rather rubbish welsh village school ,myself

guess my own experinces made me more cautious.

its a gamble I suppose.

it seems so drastic in moving just feel lioke tried to work with dd curret school and they keep parents at arms reach.

on paper ofsted and sats seem better for other school although take into account smaller year group.

church inspection I kno not hugley releveant but di think the ones ubject being rc school they could teach well is re as thats reason for their existance.

for them re is as important as maths or english.

crazymum53 Thu 11-Oct-12 14:39:32

I really think you are overdoing it here. A few percentage difference is SATs scores does not really make a school any better. It is actually more difficult for small schools to get the best results statistically. If a particular year group has one more child with SEN who does not achieve level 4 then that can change the percentage by quite a large amount.

"Am I correct in thinking be easier to prepare 20year 6 kids for sats then 45?" Not really true. dds school has 75 pupils in a year group and obtained better results than many smaller schools (last year 93% for Maths and English).

You refer to your child as being "bottom of the class" yet on another thread you say she is at level 1b now. This is not underachieving she is on track to get 2b at the end of KS1 and 4b at end of KS2 at the current school. I wouldn't be too swayed by the clubs and activities available at school either. These can change if a teacher leaves and there is no guarantee that these clubs would have space for your dd to join.

mam29 Thu 11-Oct-12 20:36:28

thank you crazy mum

current school told me 1b was below average and most of her year got higher.

I really liked the other smaller coe school
but its big descion hence why decided to drill down to detail with sats and ofsted to ensure I made right decision.

the fact you raised about smaller numbers is good point.

other school is 18%higher in maths than current
only 75%of current school get level 4maths
this worries me as maths weakest topic, schools not offering any extra help, other school has specialist maths ta and uses system called numicon.

dd is very sporty and arty she would love the netball and art club.

The thematic curriculum and teaching at new schools seems so informal and hands on.

mam29 Thu 11-Oct-12 20:44:58

copied and pasted from current school website

Year Group Below Expectation
National Average Expectation
Reception/EYFS1-3456
Year 1P4-81c1b 1a 2c

it said 1a/2c was national expectation. which made me worried over summer so enquired at other school not expecting they have a place plus its out of catchment so never looked at it before.

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