# Talk

## Times tables in modern times do we stop at 10?

(40 Posts)
caffeinated Sat 31-Mar-12 14:29:12

Have been playing some times tables games online and noticed but the questions ended at 10x each number. Do kids not need to learn 11x and 12x each number anymore and so in the same vein do they still need to learn 11 and 12x tables?

learnandsay Sat 31-Mar-12 14:34:12

Just because my nearest railway line terminates at Euston that doesn't mean I can't venture any further south than London.

CecilyP Sat 31-Mar-12 14:55:15

Why do you think kids might need to learn 11 and 12 x tables and not 13, 14 and even 49 x tables?

Saracen Sat 31-Mar-12 15:02:07

Sure, you can learn them as high as you want and it will be slightly useful to you. I do know up to 20 x 20 but I am a bit geeky that way. Dh is a carpenter and is constantly calculating, so he knows higher ones pretty well too. If your kids enjoy these things then there's no reason they shouldn't learn as many as they want.

But I think up to 10 x 10 is the main thing since decimalisation. Anybody who knows those and understands the concept of multiplication can very quickly calculate 11s and 12s.

I was only taught up to 10 x 10 in the US in the 1970s.

AllotmentLottie Sat 31-Mar-12 15:07:06

Our school teaches up to x12.

PestoPenguin Sat 31-Mar-12 15:08:24

Up to x20 is a good idea. If you learn it young you tend not to forget. V useful later in life

Tooblunt2012 Sat 31-Mar-12 15:09:46

I presumed that because of the decimal system the necessity to learn 11 & 12 times tables fell by the wayside. No harm in learning them, just not so much of a need anymore - am I wrong??

NotMostPeople Sat 31-Mar-12 15:09:47

Up to 13 is required for the 11+, so that's what my dc's learn.

ragged Sat 31-Mar-12 15:33:39

DC learn everything up thru 12 by heart & are expected to work most other possibilities out mentally by y6.

mrz Sat 31-Mar-12 15:45:43

traditionally we learnt 12X because there were 12d to the £ and 12 inches to the foot, there are 12 in a dozen etc etc

We still teach 11x and 12X

CecilyP Sat 31-Mar-12 17:27:18

I presumed that because of the decimal system the necessity to learn 11 & 12 times tables fell by the wayside. No harm in learning them, just not so much of a need anymore - am I wrong??

No, you presumed correctly, Tooblunt.

Up to 13 is required for the 11+, so that's what my dc's learn.

Why? I mean why wouldn't they just use long multiplication?

wimini Sat 31-Mar-12 18:56:13

learnandsay

LeeCoakley Sat 31-Mar-12 19:03:15

I agree - why do they have to learn up to 13x tables? What a funny number to go up to and stop at. Do clever children all want to be bakers or something?

Lizcat Sat 31-Mar-12 19:59:33

My uncle who is a now retired physics teacher reckons that form A-level science you should know up to 17x to be able to guesstimate whether your answer is correct or not.

mrz Sat 31-Mar-12 20:00:52

but if you know your 7X and 10x and can add quickly

Lizcat Sat 31-Mar-12 20:10:16

Mrz just reporting what he feels. Have to say he taught at super selective private senior school with exceptional A-level results and incredibly large numbers of pupils to Oxbridge. He did say it needs to be an instinctive feel as to whether the answer is right as oppose to a calculation. As someone who does drug calculations and checks those of others up to 15x to give me that gut feel is very useful to me. But maybe you should add higher than 10 at senior school if sciences look like a serious option.

QED Sat 31-Mar-12 20:10:58

I know up to 12x12 without thinking about it. I do know 13x13 and if I think for a couple of seconds 11 and 12 times 13.

Did scientific A Levels and was able to do OK guesstimating without going any further in my times table knowledge. I do know the squares up to 20x but just because I like square numbers

QED Sat 31-Mar-12 20:11:58

However then I became an accountant and became rather more reliant on my calculator

nagynolonger Sat 31-Mar-12 21:00:18

Way back before 100p = £1

Everyone needed to know their 12 x because 12 old pennies made one shilling
We also learnt 14 x and 16 x because,

16 onces = 1 pound
14 pounds = 1 stone

Everyone had to learn how to work things out in other than base 10. That is what primary school arithmatic focused on.

CecilyP Sat 31-Mar-12 21:04:53

We also learnt 14 x and 16 x because,

Did we? While we learned up to 12x in order to do money sums, we did not go any further than that. As far as I know 16 ounces still make a pound and 14 pounds still make a stone.

nagynolonger Sat 31-Mar-12 21:07:22

I did! But I am very old.

CecilyP Sat 31-Mar-12 21:09:39

Lizcat, I am intrigued to know why your uncle reckoned you need to know 17x in order to guestimate. It is something particularly related to physics? Regardless of how expensive or exclusive a school is, numbers are still numbers. Still, could be useful for the numbers questions on Countdown.

Lizcat Sat 31-Mar-12 21:14:00

No idea why 17xis important. However, he now volunteers 1 day a week as a science TA in a local senior school and in September he sits the new AS students down a gets them to learn timetables to 17x.

LeeCoakley Sat 31-Mar-12 21:54:27

I'd forgotten about 16x. We learnt that at primary if we were whizzes at 12x.

LeeCoakley Sat 31-Mar-12 22:07:13

I'm amazed how we added money sums together!
e.g. £2 13s 7d + £1 9s 10d
err... 10 + 7 = 5 carry 1. 13 + 9 + 1 = 3 carry 1. 2 + 1 + 1 = 4.
Therefore I think the answer is £4 3s 5d.
I remember pages and pages of this sort of arithmetic. Thank goodness it's simpler now!

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