Year 2 DS doing well but fidgety, teacher seems a bit concerned

[jalapeno]

I'm terribly confused about the limited feedback we are getting from teacher, please let me know what you think and whether there is even anything to worry about...

DS is 6.5 and doing well at school, he is a free reader and in top groups for everything, regularly getting top marks in maths tests and good at spellings too. He asks interesting questions, is popular with other children and very good at imaginative play. I don't have too many worries, however have always found him very loud, bouncy, in a bit of a dream world when it comes to getting dressed etc. I have always just put this down to being a 6.5 year old boy so all good.

His teacher last year picked up on his fidgets and told us of the things she did with him to maintain his concentration. Great, we knew what was happening and what was expected of us.

This year, his (different) teacher is often pulling me aside, she tells me he sometimes refuses to do work (although this is better recently she says), he is stubborn, he says he is tired, can't concentrate, he is distracted by other children (this is what he tells her, not her observation) and she has been given my full permission to dole out "consequences" for this sort of behaviour. She has now told me that she thinks he would benefit from a cushion with corn in to give sensory stimulation but I think she means I have to get one- why can't she just get him one? Do I have to make one? My sister has dyspraxia (which I don't think he has) and sensory issues (which I think he might have) and so he may benefit from this sort of aid but I think there are some issues here that run deeper. Should I be concerned that he has issues? Should they be acknowledged even though his learning isn't affected? He is doing well! If he is disruptive shouldn't she be dealing with it in class? He isn't a naughty boy but I accept possibly irritating but is this a personality clash more than anything?

Given the familial link should I get him tested for something...but if so which condition? We have a SENCO in the family and they don't seem concerned. Perhaps he needs more tailored work because he is a bit bored? Please help!

[daiawnti]

I have seen those cushions and they are good, but why on earth would you need to provide one? Surly that's the schools job? I would want to know what strategies the are using to stop him refusing to do work? Could you ask the school SENCO if the are overly concerned? what has worked well with some of the children I have supported in the past is allowing the child to play with blu tac when they are required to sit and listen.

[daiawnti]

It helps them stop moving

[mrz]

It's a sad fact of school finance but if I want any equipment such as a cushion for my pupils I often have to pay for them myself

[jalapeno]

Thanks both of you. That's a shame mrz, things are tough for us financially at the moment but I would pay for equipment that he needs if the school can't provide it, even though we've paid our school fund etc. Does he really need it though or would some other strategies work?

I don't know who the school SENCO is, I don't want to go over his teacher's head and I don't want to pursue any testing if unnecessary, I suppose I'm asking if the things I describe are cause for concern or a storm in a teacup. Does he really need to see the SENCO? He is learning well, he just seems to give the impression that he's not listening but he is taking it all in whilst fidgeting. Is this a problem?

[IndigoBell]

This is probably the cushion she means.

Both my boys have one (that I have bought) and it's helped them a lot.

If you can afford it I'd definitely get one. My son says it makes him feel 'more in place' so he doesn't need to wriggle so much :(

ie there are 2 main reasons why kids wriggle a lot

1. Vestibular problems ( problems with their balance)
   
2. Proprioception problems (knowing where the parts of your body are)
   

Basically they don't know they are sitting securely on the seat, so they wiggle so that they can feel the seat, which reassures them that they're not going to fall off.

Ask your son to hold his hands out at shoulder level and close his eyes. Now ask him to touch his nose with his index finger (with his eyes closed). If he struggles with this then he has Proprioception problems.

(My son bought his finger close to his nose and then said 'I've forgotten where my nose is'!!!!!!! :( )

[mrz]

Obviously you (and his teacher) know your son but I would suggest if the teacher sees it as a problem it probably is one.
You aren't going over his teacher's head by asking for a meeting with her and the SENCO to discuss the school's concerns.

[jalapeno]

Thanks mrz I will ask her again. Her words were that she would be concerned if he couldn't do his work but he's very able and very good at sitting still when he has something to do, it seems to be sitting and listening that is the problem although he still picks up the information he is just making a spaceship out of a pencil or something which must be annoying for her (I find it irritating at home! He can't sit on his chair for an entire meal without getting down, running around, getting distracted by something for example) I'm still not sure whether she's concerned or not. I had to dash off to pick DS2 from nursery so couldn't talk for long at the gate but she hasn't asked to talk to me in private or anything.

Thanks IndigoBell I will have a look at those cushions, she mentioned making one from a pillow case and dried corn (like unpopped popcorn) so that might be a cheaper alternative to try.

[IndigoBell]

I've had a devil of a time to make DS2s teacher concerned by his fidgeting etc. He does very well academically and school couldn't see his problems at all.

I got sick of trying to explain to school what the problem was, so over Christmas I took him to a private OT.

She gave him a diagnosis of DCD (Developmental Co-ordination Disorder - which is often confused with Dyspraxia) and said He has considerable difficulties which he masks effectively for short periods of time.

Now, I'm not suggesting your DS has DCD, what I am suggesting is that it is possible he has considerably difficulties despite the fact he does well academically, and I think you'd be best to follow this up.

[jalapeno]

That's really helpful thanks IndigoBell. I might read up on DCD to see if the symptoms looks familiar. He actually has good coordination so I don't think he has dyspraxia (having seen my sister struggle with it he doesn't have those symptoms) he just fidgets continually. He suffers from eczema and we are so used to telling him to stop scratching, we never really noticed it. He has similar symptoms to my sister in that the need to bang his feet etc seems to make him happy which makes me think a sensory disorder (sorry I can't remember what hers is called I will ask her!) is more likely.

I just asked him to close his eyes and touch his nose as you suggested, he could do it no problem.

I will ask to talk to his teacher in more depth next time I pick up.

[MigratingCoconuts]

hi, just wanted to echo mrz and say you are definately not going over the head of the class teacher to see the senco and that I am a bit surprised she hasn't suggested it.
however, it would be worth letting the teacher know this is what you want, She should be part of the meeting as she sounds supportive and shows good understanding of you ds.

[MigratingCoconuts]

....exactly as mrz said (only in less words!)

[jalapeno]

I've had a quick look at the symptoms of DCD and it doesn't fit, he has good fine motor skills and doesn't get frustrated with things, he will persevere (if he is interested enough!) and is quite good at things. He was catching and kicking rugby balls from an early age, we used to get lots of comments in the park from other dads when he was 2! We took him to football and he has good skills, just not interested, he would be standing in a random part of the pitch playing with imaginary bakugans!!

He is very good at maths, he has good spatial awareness. I will bear it in mind though!

[WinlessChunder]

Your DS sounds very much like my DS. His school actually put me in touch with a private Occupational Therapist and we had him assessed. He has been diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder. SPD covers a variety of sensory-related issues, of which Dyspraxia is one, so even with the absence of the co-ordination issues (which my DS also has) it may well be SPD. We've been recommended one of the Mov n Sit cushions as well as a Tripp Trapp chair to use at home. The OT has also developed a tailored programme for him to do - it's early days so I can't say how successful it its!

Have a look at www.spdfoundation.net/. If you think it's worth pursuing you can either contact a paediatric OT directly and arrange an assessment (obviously you'd have to pay for it) or go to your GP and try and get an OT appointment on the NHS (probably a lengthy wait I'm afraid).

HTH!

[jalapeno]

Thanks migrating coconuts (love the name!) But is it what I want? She said she would be concerned if he wasn't achieving but he is so she isn't, does he have specific educational needs if he isn't struggling? He is quite a laid back, happy child (my youngest is much more fiesty!!) and he takes most things in his stride. He does seem a bit immature compared to his peers, but he is a summer baby so I put it down to that. If there is a problem I want to sort it, of course, but I am wary of going down the road of getting a SENCO involved if he is doing so well. If we just talk to them and they are confident that he isn't being affected in any way what will happen? Will he then be labelled as disruptive as he is not able to sit for carpet time? I'm a bit worried now

[jalapeno]

Ah now SPD could be the thing my sister has! I will have a look, thanks

[jalapeno]

Not sure if it is significant but a couple of weeks ago he complained of fuzzy sight and we took him to the optician, he was proclaimed slightly longsighted and now wears glasses just for schoolwork.

[mrz]

I don't think any of the things you mention excludes a possibility of DCD or sensory processing issues. It is unusual for a child to demonstrate every symptom.

My DCD child has
difficulty with
shoelaces
writing
spelling
organisation
attention/concentration
remembering/following instructions
he can concentrate all day long at things that really interest him

[jalapeno]

Not sure about shoelaces, he's still in infants and they aren't allowed laces yet. Writing and spelling is ok although he isn't interested in it (I came on here asking about it last year!!) and the child you describe could be him. Thanks to everyone this has been really helpful, I will talk to his teacher.

I am now really sad to think that his itching isn't just eczema but he is itchy because of a sensory problem

[IndigoBell]

Eczema, Asthma and Ear Infections are all often present in kids who have ASD, ADHD, DCD and dyslexia.

[mrz]

I should have also said that nothing you have said means your son has DCD or SPD or any other condition either.

[jalapeno]

Yes good idea coconutty. I'd like to talk to her properly because I feel as if I didn't get a chance to ask her what she really thinks. I have just ordered a cushion that IndigoBell recommends. I will try my best not to overanalyse in the mean time mrz!

[jalapeno]

I have got an appointment with his teacher after school today and his cushion arrived this morning so I'll take that in too. I'm still not sure what I'm asking though and I hope I don't cry

I will try and say that I have spoken to my mum who's a SENCO (she doesn't want to advise too much as she is secondary teacher, she has tested his reading, decoding etc all well above average and she doesn't suspect any autism but thinks something could be amiss) and she is worried that the fidgeting might be masking something or be caused by a sensory condition that we do have in the family. Perhaps he should be tested by an OT for sensory conditions (possibly dyspraxia but I still don't think it is that unless very mild).

Does this sound ok? Also, does it sound a bit silly to ask for him to be assessed by an educational psychologist in case he's being held back by being a bright boy? I know he is doing really well but perhaps he could be more clever than we think? I'm reluctant to say this as a) it makes me cringe a bit when I say it out loud and b) his teacher is the G&T teacher of the school and she's obviously not noticed any giftedness but this is niggling at me, how do I put it without sounding like I don't want to accept there is anything wrong, he must be a genius lol.

[WannabeMegMarch]

I would echo a lot of the advice mrz and indigo have given you. In particular, eczema, DCD/Dyspraxia and SPD can co-exist but it would be unusual for a child to tick every box on a checklist- each one has there own picture so to speak.
I dont think I would run out and buy stuff for him at this stage without having an in-depth assessment. Would you also consider going to your GP and ask for a Comm Paediatrician referral in particular to access an OT assessment? List everything that you and teacher have observed.
It sounds as if fidgeting is the big issue for school and home- that could be proprioception as Indigo says, it could also be mid-line orientation difficulties or it could be that he needs movement to maintain attention.
Rotational movement can really help when he needs to stop and pay attention as it strongly activates deep core postural muscles e.g. sit on floor cross legged and tip your right hand behind you left hip, and vice versa. Repeat 10 times each side.

[WannabeMegMarch]

Sorry cross posted. Obviously meant their own picture.
I would follow up with Ed Psych too...he may be doing fine at school but not achieving his best IYKWIM
Hope the rest makes sense