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Why is yr2 teacher punishing whole class instead of groups/individuals responsible for disruption?

(53 Posts)
peggotty Thu 08-Sep-11 22:00:42

Dd's new yr2 teacher's system seems to be that if the level of noise/talking (for example) is too loud, the class gets three chances to settle down but if this doesn't happen then the whole class gets 3 minutes off their break time. This is only the third day back at school and dd's class has already lost three minutes from breaktime hmm. Is this not excessive and also unfair to the chlldren in the class who are quiet and behaving or am I missing something?

UniS Thu 08-Sep-11 22:05:27

peer pressure. They get 3 chances.

Got to start the year as you mean to go on in year 2 I think.

peggotty Thu 08-Sep-11 22:06:23

Is it normal for discipline to be ramped up in yr 2 then?

stripeybump Thu 08-Sep-11 22:06:58

You're right, it's really bad practice, especially with such little ones. Complain to the school - the head will put a stop to it quicksharp.

UnSerpentQuiCourt Thu 08-Sep-11 22:08:04

Yes, peer pressure. Other children have a strong effect on disruptive elements. 'Not acceptable'. according to our Head, but very effective. Only 3 minutes, after all.

munstersmum Thu 08-Sep-11 22:09:28

Perspective required. It's only 3 minutes. Teacher may only do it to show means business at start of term.

purpleturtle Thu 08-Sep-11 22:10:18

One of the Y6 School Council members at my DCs' school persuaded them to make it a policy that children would not be punished for another child's misdemeanour. I did find that supply teachers were still particularly fond of the rather lazy method of maintaining discipline by sanctioning a whole class at a time.

Jaquelinehyde Thu 08-Sep-11 22:11:37

I think it's quite a goos idea actually as it introduces the class immediately to the idea of working together and being a team.

My dc's school does something similar with a pebble treat scheme, where pebbles are placed in a jar for good behaviour from the group. They got one on the first day back for coming back from assembly in a neat silent line. They can be removed because of the actions of just one person/small group so the whole class, if the jar is full at the end of a term they earn a pebble treat.

I actually remember when I was at primary we were sometimes kept in as a whole class just because a couple of people couldn't stop chatterin.

I think it's perfectly acceptable, the children will soon sort the ones out who keep ruining it for the rest of them.

peggotty Thu 08-Sep-11 22:13:00

Just seems a really negative way to start off with a new class. Even if it is a temporary measure. Teaches the well-behaved kids that they get punished even if they behave. It's not the length of the punishment, I know 3 mins isn't long, it's the message behind it.

Jaquelinehyde Thu 08-Sep-11 22:14:19

Please excuse all my grammar and spelling mistakes blush

Jaquelinehyde Thu 08-Sep-11 22:16:23

Sorry meant to add there should also be a form of individual reward scheme so that individual behaviour can be rewarded or vice versa. The DCs have individual sticker charts as well where when they get ten they get called up in the awards assembly and given a certificate and pencil or something similar.

peggotty Thu 08-Sep-11 22:30:26

Jaqueline, I don't think the pebble thing is similar really as the class are working towards a treat and get rewards as well as sanctions, whereas what dd's teacher is doing is just punishment - having a whole breaktime can't be considered a treat can it? I just think it's really unfair!

CustardCake Thu 08-Sep-11 23:02:29

I think it is a very negative way to discipline children - a sort of divide and conquer policy that relies on the seething of their peers to keep the disruptive elements in line.
It also sends a very negative message about personal responsibility and being rewarded for being good. If you happen to have a certain child or a certain group in the class who always talk and mess about, the well behaved children become resigned to the fact that there's nothing they can do personally that will avoid collective punishment and as such they might as well not bother sitting nicely or paying attention.

It is lazy and bad practice and I for one would definitely complain and keep complaining until it is stopped.

Jaquelinehyde Thu 08-Sep-11 23:34:37

I guarantee that after a few days of losing 3 mins most of the class will be behaving how they are expected to. After that the teacher will have singled out those that are misbehaving/talking and will be able to deal with the issues, probably by moving/splitting the one or two up and placing them amongst the other children.

The pebble treat is a perfect example, last year one of the year groups missed out on there end of year pebble treat (a trip to the beach we live near) because of the behaviour of a few (I think it was 3 of them). It's actually the only time I have heard of a pebble treat being lost but as we all know punishments have to be followed through with when needed.

In comparison 3mins is fairly minor.

Jaquelinehyde Thu 08-Sep-11 23:35:39

Also can I ask how you know about this? Sorry if you have explained earlier and I have missed it.

kipperandtiger Thu 08-Sep-11 23:45:57

Yes, I don't agree with this method for year 2 and at the start of the year. Year 5 or 6 pupils who are mature enough can understand how it works but I think at year 2 age, the good, quiet ones will just get upset and the boisterous, uncaring ones will just carry on regardless. If it worked, the teacher was lucky that those chatting interpreted it as "3 minutes of MY break time". I'd like to know what she will do if one person keeps chatting nonstop - keep the whole class in??

HoHoLaughingMonster Thu 08-Sep-11 23:55:09

I had a teacher who did this at primary school.

Except the punishment was a bit worse than 3 mins off break time.

IME it is really demoralising, and in some ways encourages the better behaved kids to be naughty too, as they know they'll get punished anyway. At least this was my response hmm I had zero respect for that teacher, I felt she handled things really badly even at the age of 10!

I don't think peer pressure works on some children, especially if there's a 'naughty' gang who stick together anyway and don't care what the 'swots' think (I appreciate I'm probably coming across like an old fart).

2BoysTooLoud Fri 09-Sep-11 07:36:15

My ds just started in year 2. There are some boisterous boys in his class- one or two of which who seem incapable of understanding consequences at the moment.
The whole class punishment in this class would not be fair as it would not work and the slight tension towards these boys ['he is silly', 'don't want to sit next to him'] would increase.

RedorLead Fri 09-Sep-11 07:55:13

We had a supply teacher last year use whole class punishments for the noisy behaviour of the few. I found it completely unaaceptable - my dc was completely confused and upset as to why the whole class was punished - they don't like the naughty kids anyway, so I doubt in Year 2 they could influence them. The teacher kept them in for 20 mins after school until she could get 3 mins continuous silence from them - tbh she came across as a little unhinged.

I emailed the Head and she moved very quickly, the supply teacher had breached their school dicipline policy and was removed immediately.

ivykaty44 Fri 09-Sep-11 07:59:28

Because the teacher isn't in control of the class in an effective manner, so makes crude attempts to punish everyone - which sends the message loud and clear to the children - what is the point of behaving as you still get punished so why bother.

You could imagine a work college doing something wrong and the whole of the team being punished - it wouldn't work and would cause bad feeling and a negative impact on the team at work - it has the same effect in the class room

ivykaty44 Fri 09-Sep-11 07:59:50

sorry colleage

AnnaBegins Fri 09-Sep-11 08:07:58

This never worked when I was at school - those who were quiet were the ones who had no control over the naughty louder ones! So the status quo of class punishments continued. I would say the teacher is not in control.

peggotty Fri 09-Sep-11 12:18:54

Jaqueline, I heard about it initially from another parent and then my dd told me about it (without me mentioning I had already heard). There is no individual reward chart or anything to counter-balance it. Dd has said several times 'it's not fair, I wasn't talking', and I totally agree with her.

IndigoBell Fri 09-Sep-11 13:10:24

I really think you're over thinking this.

It's 3 minutes of sitting quietly in their desks instead of running around. 3 minutes!

Now, if your child has SN and can't handle it, then that's one thing. But if your child has no SN, then it's absolutely no big deal.

You don't know if the teacher is just going to do this once or twice to start the term off. Or if it's going to happen daily.

You don't know if it's school policy, or just this teachers.

You don't know if half the class were naughty or just one or two.

But whatever you think, you need to keep it to yourself. Life isn't fair. If my team doesn't deliver it's project we all don't get our bonus. And that's the way it should be, because it is my team. It is my responsibility to get the project delivered - whether or not it's 'my part' that was late.

And obv if the team doesn't deliver enough, the whole company can close down.

So in real life there are team punishments, and working together as a team is very important.

That is the message you should be sending to your DD.

ivykaty44 Fri 09-Sep-11 14:01:35

and if one of your team is naughty indigobell do you all get a verbal disciplined? Or just the one that was naughty? I doubt a team member would be happy to receive a verbal warning over another team members naughty behaviour. What you are talking about is bonuses, this class where not offered a bonus for good performance.

In real life you would not accept a verbal warning if your team members where late for work three times in a week, when each day you where on time.

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