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Year 2 SAT's; sub-levels; sorry!

(16 Posts)
lovecheese Sat 16-Jul-11 09:29:39

Am I correct in thinking that to be awarded a level 3 on teacher assessment a child has to be a SOLID 3, ie. a 3B, or have I dreamt that up?

ragged Sat 16-Jul-11 09:46:06

I have read the same thing often. Am not a teacher, so we could both be misinformed (or guidance may have changed, too)

lovecheese Sat 16-Jul-11 09:47:18

Hmm ragged, where's mrz when you need her!

LawrieMarlow Sat 16-Jul-11 09:47:54

I think it may be different in different LEAs. I think it was Feenie who said where she is, if a child is at 3c level, they are considered to be a 2a. So in her school a level 3 would be 3b or 3a.

Don't think it is necessarily like that everywhere though.

oneofsuesylvesterscheerios Sat 16-Jul-11 09:51:25

Afaik (I teach secondary and this is what I do) levels 3a 3b and 3c would all be classed as a level 3. TA usually gives sub-levels so you can see where a pupil is on more detail but official SATs only give straight levels.

lovecheese Sat 16-Jul-11 09:55:59

So a parent could request sub-levels for a level 3 and school would have to provide them?

spanieleyes Sat 16-Jul-11 09:58:26

It is in my authority! To be assessed as a level 3 in year 2 has to mean you are a solid ( ie b) 3. This is simply because of the progress tracker system that is used by many authorities which assigns points to each sublevel- so a 2b is 15 points, a 2a is 17 and a 3c is 19. Unfortunately they "system" assigns 21 points to a level 3 given in year 2. This is the same number of points as a 3b, so a level 3 has to be a 3b! ( as progress is then measured from the points given)
We don't like the system and it certainly makes teachers and Heads very cautious about assigning level 3's in year 2, you have to be convinced that they are a secure level 3.

letthembe Sat 16-Jul-11 09:58:41

For the purpose of the KS1 SAT the child has to achieve a 3b or 3a to be awarded a level 3. However, the data passed onto the Y3 teacher (based on teacher assessment) may state 3c. All very confusing. The SATs at KS1 do sub-level for level 2. KS2 they don't.

lovecheese Sat 16-Jul-11 10:03:07

Anyone know the rules for Cheshire East?

I agree, letthembe, very confusing!

BusterGut Sat 16-Jul-11 13:16:59

Certainly isn't here. We report 3cs as 3s. This is endorsed by moderators at end of year meetings.

I find it interesting that some schools are required to report 3b+, yet their internal tracking reports 3c. It gives me the chance to ask my question again grin.

I think it was Feenie who said that her school is required (by the LEA) to report 2a for children working at 3c at the end of Y2. Her school will inevitably show better than average progress for these under-assessed children, as they will be likely to get L5 in Y6.

However, her internal tracker will track these same children from 3c through to an expected L5 at the end of Y6. According to the school's internal data, the same children will have made expected progress, which isn't so good in Ofsted terms!

How does this square up when Ofsted is rating progress as satisfactory, good or outstanding?

LucyLastik Sat 16-Jul-11 13:19:24

So if a child got a 3C, what would they be technically? 2A or 3B?

AbigailS Sat 16-Jul-11 13:19:33

In my LA we can only report 3s and it can be 3C. The print out says 3, but I log 3C on the internal tracking system and tell the parents it is a 3C.
It's frustrating; what is the point of sublevels at all if the assumption that 3 = 3B and nothing else?

BusterGut Sat 16-Jul-11 13:26:20

Mine's the same as yours, AbigailS.

And I agree with you re. sub-levels. And it does have implications for judgments about progress made in KS2.

(Mind you - horses for courses grin - don't think I'd be too proud of the number of 3bs I'd be reporting this year! They wouldn't exactly meet the L3 national average!!!)

AbigailS Sat 16-Jul-11 13:30:25

Yes, I've had one of those lower scoring years. I'm really pleased with how much progress the children have actually made, but LA will only look at the bottom line figures compared to last year's. hmm

BusterGut Sat 16-Jul-11 13:35:56

Just thinking about how even more ridiculous this 3b nonsense is.

It allows you two levels of reporting for end of year2 for those children exceeding national expectation:
2a - just above national expectation for a 7 year old
3b - working at the expected level for a 9 year old

....with nothing in between!


AbigailS Sat 16-Jul-11 13:40:02

I find it just as frustrating for the level 1s. There is a huge difference in how concerned a parent should be with their child getting a 1C and a 1A. I had a few 1As that I reported as 1s who are now already 2Cs and, as summer birthday boys, are really closing the gap rapidly. They are so close to "national expectations" for end of year 2, but are just reported as 1.

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