Do Y3 teachers pay much heed to Y2 SATS results?

[MilaMae]

Ie do they group according to them or assess the class themselves?

[spanieleyes]

They would look at the teacher assements rather than the SATs test results as one shows what a child doe on one day in rather unusual circumstances and the other shows the level the child is working at consistently in class-which i a much better indicator to use. However I find that even when using teacher assessments I have to re-group after a couple of weeks as different children deal with work at a higher level in different ways.

[spanieleyes]

Apologies, I have a sticky s key!

[lovecheese]

Good question, MilaMae, am curious to see how my current year 2 will be grouped next year. She seems to have had a real burst in numeracy just recently so I am hoping this will stand her in good stead in September.

[dragonmother]

Also presumably at this age a child's level can even change between when the teacher assessments in year 2 were completed (June?) and September anyway.

[dietcokeandwine]

I think it can also depend on whether the child is moving from Y2-Y3 within a primary school, or whether they are transferring from infant to junior school. If the former (ie they are effectively remaining in the same school) I suspect more notice will be taken than with the latter. From what I read/hear, some infants schools are perhaps rather more likely to push on the Y2 SATS (because those SATS are effectively their 'leavers results') whilst a 4-11 primary might focus more on the Y6 ones.

Certainly DS's school, whilst not exactly obsessing about SATS, does a lot (in terms of extra help, additional group work etc) with children who they feel could get L3 - i.e. they want to make damn sure they get as many L3s as possible. Whether a junior school/Y3 teacher would consider some of those children to be 'true' L3s is probably debatable. It is well known amongst parents at DS's school that the junior school will totally and completely ignore probably not pay that much attention to SATS results and simply reassess children themselves in September.

dragonmother makes another good point though in terms of changes in levels. We were told that it's common for a child to not exactly regress when they get into Y3, but to perhaps plateau for a while - partly because they've just had a long summer holiday, and partly because they need to adapt to the more challenging environment of Y3 (partly if moving school from infant to junior) and so academic achievement might take something of a back seat initially whilst the children adapt.

[skybluepearl]

ours assessed the class from scratch then put them in sets after a month.

[mrz]

We don't group by ability but differentiation is based on previous year's levels until children are settled.

[Niecie]

Bit of both in my DC's schools - an infant and a junior on the same site. They do take notice of the SATS/ Yr 2 assessmentm because they spend a lot of time liasing and discussing the children but they also reassess using KS2 style assessments a few weeks in to Yr 3. In Yr 2 for example the comprehension is tested after the teacher reads the text to the children. In Yr 3 they are expected to read the comprehension for themselves. This might throw up discrepancies which mean that the groups change but it might not.

Problem is that there is always a bit of rivalry between an infant and an a juniors. The infants want their children to do well so they look good for the infants (and for the children's sake as well of course) but the juniors want them to start out as low as possible so they can claim a greater value added themselves. The whole system of separate infants and juniors seems to bred distrust which is a shame.

[jillycar]

Completely agree with many of the points Niecie makes. However, the teacher can certainly not read the text to children in Year 2. There are differences in tests, however e.g. Year 2 reading test is not timed but Year 3 Sats test is timed. However, increasingly and rightly so more reliance is given to teacher assessment.

Sorry Niecie not trying to pick - agree with everything else!

[MilaMae]

Ooo mrz whilst you're here.

My twins(different classes) just got their SATS results twin 2(a swot) got 3 in everything his brother who I firmly believe is the same abilitywise (but finds school a pita that keeps him away from his Star Wars lego) got 3 in science but 2a in maths and reading and 2b in writing.

I'm obviously concerned.He lacks the work ethic of his brother and has to be nagged to be kept on task.I'm convinced there isn't much between them(I'm an ex teacher myself),they've been pretty much bang on the same develpmentwise all the way through but they're very different in personality and this has been noticeable at school. I'm now worried he's going to be given work that won't challenge him enough ,thus he'll loose even more interest etc hence my op.

Going to see this years teacher who is sympathetic and will write to the new one the first week back.I'm going to request we raise the bar and I want weekly feed back on his effort,maybe charts,extra work or work not completed properly sent home.Do you think this is reasonable? He's a quiet,polite boy and I'm worried he's going under the radar so to speak.I refuse to just let him coast.I tried to chill the last couple of years and haven't cracked the whip or done anything different/extra.Now he's going into year 3 I feel it's time to crank things up a gear.

What do you think and what could I do at home.Thinking reading comprehension(any ideas)as he was a fluent free reader early on in Y1 so 2a SATS aint good enough imvho and loads of writing during the hols,some egg timer exercises.Re writing do I now need to correct grammar and spellings or is the act of writing still important.Letter formation,spelling fine(he's a good speller actually) although he's left handed and has no interest in presentation iykwim.

Am I officially going to the darkside of loony mum they'll all raise their eyebrows at in the staffroom?????

Really ,really sorry to bug you but I find it difficult dealing with school stuff as an ex teacher and I don't want to get upset,just don't know what to do basically.

Many tia!!!!!!

[Feenie]

They do take notice of the SATS/ Yr 2 assessmentm because they spend a lot of time liasing and discussing the children but they also reassess using KS2 style assessments a few weeks in to Yr 3. In Yr 2 for example the comprehension is tested after the teacher reads the text to the children. In Yr 3 they are expected to read the comprehension for themselves. This might throw up discrepancies which mean that the groups change but it might not.

The description of the Y2 reading test is totally wrong!

In any case, both the Y2 assessment and any assessment undertaken in the first few weeks of Y3 will be a teacher assessment, not tests.

In any year group, Y3 or otherwise, teachers will initially look at the most recent teacher assessment to plan what to teach, then will reassess using teacher assessment when the children have settled. And will use constant teacher assessment to continue to plan and teach throughout the year.

[Teachermumof3]

In Yr 2 for example the comprehension is tested after the teacher reads the text to the children.

What rubbish!

[lovecheese]

Milamae - why is a 2a in reading not good enough for you? It's bloody good.

[mrz]

MilaMae he is obviously a clever boy and has done well in his SATs (just not as good as his brother and perhaps not as good as he is capable of doing) and I'm not sure he will take the idea of extra work at home (you obviously know him best) and weekly checks on his effort in school, how do you think he will react?
I would be inclined to wait and see what happens in September and perhaps speak to the teacher after a few weeks rather than immediately. Any extra work I would do with both boys and make it fun not a chore.

[MilaMae]

He was a free reader beg of year 1,when you hear both twins read there isn't much difference.Having said that his twin reads anything and everything whereas said twin seems to only read willingly Star wars manuals and Diary of a Wimpy Kid books.

I just think after 2 years fluent reading and being able to read pretty much anything he should have got a 3 like his twin. I know it sounds pushy but he isn't fulfilling his potential,he's just coasting and getting away with as little as he can.

If he wasn't capable of a 3 I seriously wouldn't be concerned but it just seems he's made no progress in 2 years with reading ie he's exactly where he was 2 years ago.As a mum I have to make sure he's reaches his full potential.

My suspicion is the reading comp needed for a 3 involves a bit of input from the child and he simply can't be arsed.To be honest though it's a long time since I've done SATS so I don't know how it's done these days.I could well be wrong.

[MilaMae]

Sorry x posts.

He will hate extra work but I can't see the alternative.

It's hard having a teacher head and a mum's head-they both pull in opposite directions.

[mrz]

The main difference I find between a 2a and a 3c comprehension is the ability to draw inference from what they read perhaps his choice of free reading material (manuals) doesn't give him as many opportunities to develop this skill. One of the reasons I dislike the concept of "free readers"

[MilaMae]

There is also a self esteem issue,I don't want a huge gulf to happen between the 2(which is occurring) and said twin thinking well why bother I'm not as clever.

[lovecheese]

A teacher is very welcome to correct me if I am wrong but I really don't think free reading=level 3. It is not about what level books he brings home and the fact that he finished his school's reading scheme a while ago - as you said it is the comprehension of what he is reading, or as you put it "My suspicion is the reading comp needed for a 3 involves a bit of input from the child" - too right it does, just because a child is reading Harry Potter at home does not mean that he or she can extract inferential information from a text in a test situation. As I said before, 2a is above average and he deserves praise.

[MilaMae]

So what sort of stuff would you like?

My dd's fab Y1 teacher has kept her free readers on picture books this year and it's been brilliant as you can get far more out of them than chapter books.

I'm ex literacy so have far too much interest in all this.

[MilaMae]

I have praised him(a lot) but I don't get the lack of progression in 2 years,surely the comp should have been attained in that period of time?

[MilaMae]

Love what can one do to improve said comp?

[lovecheese]

MilaMae, my DH is a Head Teacher, that's why I'm always on often to be found in primary education on MN.

[MilaMae]

You'd think after 15 years I'd keep away from all things educational.

I find the whole reading process fascinating though particularly when you see your own kids become readers,it's lovely.

[mrz]

It very much depends on what he (as a free reader) is choosing to read. I believe children need to be given books selected by the teacher to teach the skills they need to develop.
IMHO the "free reader" thing is either to pander to parents or lazy teaching when applied to 5 & 6 year olds