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Sorry - another question about acheivment levels on reports.

(44 Posts)
katedan Sun 10-Jul-11 18:05:59

I know there has been a number of questions about this type of thing in the last couple of weeks but I cannot find an answer to this question so am really hoping someone can answer for me before I go to speak to DS's teacher. In an academic year I thought a child should go up two levels i.e from 2c to 2a or 3c to 3a. If that has not happened is it correct that I should speak to ds's teacher to find out why. he has A's for effort for all his subjects so we are very proud of him but if there ia problem I would like to deal with it now.

madrose Sun 10-Jul-11 18:10:39

It should be 3 sublevels. So from 1a -2a

katedan Sun 10-Jul-11 18:13:25

Madrose - is that in one academic year? I thought they were expected to go from 2a to 4a for example between yr 2 and yr6.

This whole system is very confusing.

LawrieMarlow Sun 10-Jul-11 18:16:47

I thought it was on average two sub levels per year but to remember that children don't necessarily make steady linear progress. So they may make one sub level progress one year and then three the next.

What year is your DS?

katedan Sun 10-Jul-11 18:21:09

He is at the end of yr3, he has worked so hard and the comments were really good I just feel disappointed he has not made the progress I would have expected. His teacher this year as not been the best so not sure this is down to bad teaching or ds struggling.

cece Sun 10-Jul-11 18:28:33

Year 3 can sometimes see a bit of a dip in achievement. As someone else has already said progress is not always at a steady pace and can be in fits and starts.

Have a word with the teacher and see if she/he feels you should be concerned or not. And then also pop in after a month with new teacher and see what they think.

Well done on the As for effort though. smile

fenellaf Sun 10-Jul-11 18:31:25

Hi, they should go up 3 curriculum points a year, ideally. Each sublevel has 2 points attached to it, so a child who is a secure 2b will have 15 points, but if he is nearly at a 2a, they will be working at a 2b+ which is worth 16 points. If your child was a 2b, (15 points) at the end of year 2, he could be a 2a+, (18 points) at the end of year 3, which is perfectly fine. So, he hasn't made 2 sublevels progress, but he has still made 3 points. Very confusing, I know.
I am a y3 teacher, so if you need any more info, let me know.

sleepwouldbenice Sun 10-Jul-11 18:32:25

I have a chart with our school report to show the GUIDE expected range for each year for KS2

For year 3 the range is level 2b (2a, 3c then..) to 3b. I thought that it would follow the same pattern as KS1 (ie a level a year) so i am glad I was given this chart else I would have expected level 6 in year 6!

Hope this helps

mrz Sun 10-Jul-11 18:39:59

In KS1 (Y1&Y2) children are expected to make 2 levels progress (3 sub levels per year) In KS2 (Y3,4,5 &6) they are expected to make 2 levels progress (3 sub levels in 2 years) but most schools say 2 sub levels per year)

katedan Sun 10-Jul-11 19:13:20

Thank you for your responses, it sounds like I should speak to the teacher but hopefully as a couple of you have said it is a blip and by the end of yr 4 he should have caught up.

fenallaf - that is very confusing and obviously why they do not give that much info to parents but it sounds like he is OK.

fenellaf Sun 10-Jul-11 19:52:07

You're exactly right, it can be confusing so many schools don't go into levels on reports apart from Y2 and Y6. On our school reports we let the parents know if their child is working towards, within or above the expected level. Parents worry if their child hasn't gone up the 2 sublevels, but as I explained, it's not as simple and clear cut as that! Please don't worry. I'm sure if there was a problem, the teacher would have spoken to you about it.

activate Sun 10-Jul-11 19:53:18

its two sub levels not three

and Y3 invariably shows a dip (although shouldn't)

snicker Sun 10-Jul-11 19:58:57

Why does Y3 show a dip? I know a couple of parents with dcs at the end of Y3 who have been very unimpressed with the teacher. Ds has him next year so I've been listening to the rumours a bit concerned.

Ahojj Sun 10-Jul-11 20:10:41

The Y2 tests allow the pupils to assess at a "Level 3". This is a great result for them. However, levels are split into C, B and A. C is nearest to the previous level, and A is one jump from the next level.

Unfortunately, for some stupid reason, a Y2 child getting a level 3 is converted to start Y3 at 3B, rather than logically at 3C which is the "entry point" to that level. Hence it's much harder for a Y3 teacher to show progress, and I feel sorry for them.

Feenie Sun 10-Jul-11 20:14:50

Y3 should not show a dip. It used to, because years ago the criteria for assessing both year groups was very different, and didn't compare like with like. Since 2005, however, Y2 assessment uses whole school assessment methods to arrive at the final teacher assessment - i.e. the same assessment Y3 should be using to arrive at theirs.

2 sublevels is seen as good progress - as mrz and fenellaf both say,but in different ways, expected progress is actually one and a half sublevels each year.

Feenie Sun 10-Jul-11 20:16:55

Ahojj In our LEA we are only allowed to assess level 3 children as such if they are a 3b - not a 3c. So whilst it is daft that 3c doesn't exist, at least we don't have the progress problem you describe.

BusterGut Sun 10-Jul-11 20:26:11

I find that odd, Feenie. If some LEAs are advising that only 3bs should be assessed as L3, surely that will affect the national results. We are still assessing 3C as L3 for the end of KS results.

Do you report your 3Cs as 2As?

Feenie Sun 10-Jul-11 20:37:34

Yep, and internally as 3cs. It happens in a lot of LEAs - ours have always done it. And yes, the number of level 3s did go down when it started in 2005.

BusterGut Sun 10-Jul-11 20:59:58

I know it's all to do with RaiseOnline, but I don't really see any sense in it whatsoever.

Feenie Sun 10-Jul-11 21:04:09

It is, it's to do with recognising the data. You would think that some ICT person would have sorted it in the last 6 years though, wouldn't you? confused

BusterGut Sun 10-Jul-11 21:06:13

What would Ofsted look at? If they look at end of KS levels, you will be showing better progress than your internal target tracker (as some of your 2as are actually 3cs and will be likely to reach L5).

Feenie Sun 10-Jul-11 21:13:40

They looked at our internal data, our teacher assessment and every Maths and Literacy book. They said our teacher assessment was very rigorous and thorough. They must be used to it - last time we discussed it on here, quite a few teachers said their LEAs did that too.

I found it strange at first, but it's only one sublevel, and we're used to it now.

mrz Sun 10-Jul-11 21:16:23

Will it change do you think when CVA is scrapped?

Ahojj Sun 10-Jul-11 21:17:56

That's very, very interesting. When I talked to our Y3 teacher (I teach further up the school) about it, she was of the opinion that that is how it's done nationally.

Very interesting indeed.

And our expected progress is 3 sublevels a year in KS1, and 2 in KS2. So again, a disparity.


BusterGut Sun 10-Jul-11 21:23:30

But what would Ofsted use for the rating of progress. The reported 2a-5(b/c) or the tracked 3c-5c/b?
Surely that can effect the overall rating of the school? (Say I have at 10-15% of the cohort working at 3c in writing. We will show that these children have made expected progress if they achieve L5 in Y6. If I'd reported these as 2a, progress to a level 5 in Y6 would be good.)

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