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Levels at end of Y3

(34 Posts)
PasstheTwiglets Thu 07-Jul-11 17:35:56

In her Y2 SATs, DD was a Level 2B in maths. She has been given extra maths tuition this year because she was struggling and they've assessed her at a Level 2B again. Firstly, is a 2B really bad for Y3, does anybody know? I know it's average for Y2. And secondly, should a child be expected to progress up a level during a year?

mrz Thu 07-Jul-11 17:42:38

A 2B is slightly below but not " really bad". A child is expected to make a level progress in two years in KS2. I would be expecting the support to continue.

PasstheTwiglets Thu 07-Jul-11 18:53:26

Do you mean they if she was a 2b at end of Y2 then she should be a 3b by end of Y4?

lovecheese Thu 07-Jul-11 19:02:36

Think so.

mrz Thu 07-Jul-11 19:30:16

yes and a 4B in Y6

PasstheTwiglets Thu 07-Jul-11 20:10:46

thanks, both of you!

AbigailS Thu 07-Jul-11 20:14:34

My school doesn't go up to Y3 (infants school), but 2B sounds OKish. What I would be asking the school is why has the additional support not made some impact?

PassTheTwiglets Fri 08-Jul-11 13:02:37

This is what I was thinking, AbigailS. Staying at 2B sounds to me like she's made no progress at all but I wanted to check that before I talked to her teacher. I think the additional support may have got her up to a 2A (they're just waiting to confirm that) but the extra tuition only started a few weeks ago so she spent most of the year staying the same as last year.

EllenJaneisnotmyname Fri 08-Jul-11 13:16:28

Teachers at my school say that to get the same level in Y3 as in Y2 actually requires an increased knowledge of the curriculum. A Y2 child taking a Y3 paper may not have been taught enough methods to get the same grade as in a Y2 paper. So while the slow progress is disappointing, it doesn't mean that your DD has made no progress at all. But the extra help obviously needs to continue. Have they given you any ideas what unpressured, fun things you could do at home? Maybe a 'fun' maths website?

PassTheTwiglets Fri 08-Jul-11 13:50:11

Oh that's good to know EllenJane, thank you. I've signed her up for Mathletics but it's very hard to get her to do it. What with homework, reading, spelling practice, times table practive and everything else they have to do, there's hardly any time left!

EllenJaneisnotmyname Fri 08-Jul-11 14:04:41

Sounds like you are already doing enough at home, Twiglets!

ASByatt Fri 08-Jul-11 14:16:05

EllenJane - but it depends whether the level is from a paper or is a teacher assessment level. Your coment about it being harder to achieve the same level only works if the assessment is purely from test papers, which in my experience would be unusual (and disappointing, tbh) in Y 3.

EllenJaneisnotmyname Fri 08-Jul-11 14:28:15

I was talking about test papers, ASB. That's still how they assess the children for maths at the school, they've found the APP maths hard to get their heads around!

ASByatt Fri 08-Jul-11 15:29:23

Well that's really poor, to be honest! So they use the childrens' performance on one particular day, during a test, to measure their progress since the start of the school year??????

Plus, the OP did not say that it was a test that had been used to measure the rate of progress, so it could have been teacher assessment, hence my originial comment, IYSWIM.

IndigoBell Fri 08-Jul-11 15:39:16

Is this extra tuition the 10 hours 1:1?

If so, it's a one off thing. You get 10 hours and no more.

Feenie Fri 08-Jul-11 15:45:34

shock I agree with ASByatt - really poor practice to assess only with a test. How do they assess in Y2 - which HAS to be teacher assessment? APP is a fairly new development - Y2 has been teacher assessment only since 2005!

Feenie Fri 08-Jul-11 15:47:14

Teachers at my school say that to get the same level in Y3 as in Y2 actually requires an increased knowledge of the curriculum. A Y2 child taking a Y3 paper may not have been taught enough methods to get the same grade as in a Y2 paper.

That's the danger of assessing in Y3 using only a test - you aren't comparing like with like. Y2 teacher assessment should use whole school assessment procedures - and so should Y3.

EllenJaneisnotmyname Fri 08-Jul-11 16:34:21

Interesting, even the Y2 teacher assessments used single level SATS papers in May and the children only took each level once IIRC. Time they started using APP more effectively, maybe?

Feenie Fri 08-Jul-11 16:51:59

They do have to use the tests, but they are just a very small part of all the evidence which they have to collect - which is why you would think whole school assessment procedures would exist for this. They only sit one test for each subject.

PassTheTwiglets Fri 08-Jul-11 17:16:45

The 2B for DD was on teacher assesment, yes. And yes, the tuition is the 10 hours 1:1, so it ends soon.

IndigoBell Fri 08-Jul-11 17:20:01

Ok, well she's had the extra tuition not because she's 'really bad' (if you're really bad you don't qualify for the 1:1 tuition) - but because she's at risk of not making 2 levels of progress over 4 years.

I think this is all a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill. A 2b end of Y3 is not great, but it doesn't put her on the SEN register or anything.

School just had some extra 1:1 money to use, and so they have given it to her.

There really is no need to panic yet. Every chance she'll catch up next year and make great progress. - And if she doesn't you can panic next year smile

Tonksthecat Tue 12-Jul-11 19:32:06

As a former Y3 teacher and now having DD in Year 3 be reassured that it's v common for children to appear to dip/stay static in the transition between Y2 and Y3... for all sorts of reasons, mainly the diff between teacher assessment and a one-off national standardised test on one day.

As I understand it they are expected to progress 2 'subsections of levels' (c/b/a) per year so that if they were 2B at the end of Year three they would hopefully progress to be 3C at the end of year four... then 3A at the end of year five and the magical 4b at the end of year six.

So a child at 2B at the end of year 3 making the expected progress would be bang on the government target at the end of Junior school

Here's your handy little counting on reference guide:
1c 1b 1a 2c 2b 2a 3c 3b 3a 4c 4b 4a 5c 5b 5a

Feenie Tue 12-Jul-11 21:08:41

Tonksthecat There is no difference between teacher assessment between Y2 and Y3, unless (possibly) there are separate infant and junior schools (and even then it shouldn't happen with decent moderation).

Y2 assess using teacher assessment, and have to use the same assessment procedures as the rest of the school. The only difference is the tests - but they form a very small part of the assessment, thereby circumventing the problem of 'a one-off national standardised test on one day'.

Theses changes were made in 2005.

Expected progress is one whole level in 2 years - so from the end of Y3 at a 2b that would be a 3b at the end of Y5 and between a 3a/4c at the end of Y6. To reach a 4b, the OP's child will need to make good or better progress somewhere (all perfectly possible, btw).

yearningforthesun Tue 12-Jul-11 21:27:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tonksthecat Tue 12-Jul-11 22:17:14

Feenie I'm sure ideally there's no difference - and in theory - and in the more streamlined Primary schools.. but overwhelmingly my experience has been different. Sure, that's anecdotal and I have mainly been around separate Junior and Infant schools, but even in playground today at DD's school the mums who were feeling like OP were being confidently told that by the Y 3 teachers.
Anysay SATs are an imperfect tool and not, I think, meant to be definitive

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