# Talk

## Teachers can you advise me with helping dd and taking away 10 from any given number up to 100-please!!!!

(22 Posts)
MilaMae Fri 27-May-11 19:41:56

Believe it or not I'm an ex teacher and dd's Y1 teacher has mentioned it's a little sticking point with her-twice .

I asked about using a number square and teacher said no,she wants her counting back in 10s.

She has a very experienced brilliant teacher and I've been out of it 7 years so more than happy to bow down to her experience. I only mentioned a number square as I thought it might help to show how it works ie you jump down a line,I thought it would be a good mental picture to have.

I'm a bit lost as to how I can get it into her brain,have tried 3 times.Teacher says she's bright but this is a little thing she really needs to master and hasn't.I feel awful. I tried 10ps and 2ps making amounts of then taking 10p away,thought she'd got it but obviously not.

Was thinking of numicon but as I'm clearly barking up the wrong tree I thought I'd get some advice here re how I phrase it,other things I can do.I think she means taking away 10,20 etc from say 66,78 etc,that kind of thing. They have being doing money.

Her teacher is scary!!!! Too scared to ask again(obviously dd isn't the only one with a weakness in this area).

TIA

lilolilmanchester Fri 27-May-11 19:46:33

I don't suppose they use good old fashioned "tens and units" approach any more? (i'm not a teacher btw)

Blimey, she's a harsh teacher! I know that my triplets would massively have struggled with that at Year 1. Try her with a number line maybe?

belindarose Fri 27-May-11 19:50:07

Sounds like she hasn't got a grasp of place value. Your idea of using a hundred square sounds sensible enough. Numicon would also be great as it's such a fantastic visual aid. Might help her numeracy in general. Anyway, I'd play around with place value activities for a while.
www.topmarks.co.uk/Flash.aspx?f=PVChartv8

Mum2be79 Fri 27-May-11 19:53:14

I teach Y1 and I am NOT teaching my children to subtract:
1. 10 from any 2-digit number
2. any multiple of 10 from any other multiple of 10 or any 2-digit number. (E.g 80 - 20 or 60 - 30)

My children (most) are taught to subtract 10 from any multiple of 10 (e.g. 100 - 10 = 90, 90 - 10 = 80, 80 - 10 = 70 and so forth). I link it to subtracting 1 from any number less than 10.

So for example I'd say: "What is 6 take away 1? And straight away they'd say 5. (Finding 1 less is Key Objective for Reception). And then I'd write next to it; 60 - 10 =. If some bright spark doesn't see the connection, I'd write it down on and then repeat the process with another multiple of 10. Most do get it BUT they'd have to be confident about counting in 10s forwards and backwards in order to get it. Using a 100 square is a good example as are the 10p coins.

If she's not confident counting forwards and backwards in 10s and telling you 10 less/more than a given multiple of 10, she isn't ready. Bright or not, not all kids get everything straight away. I have some children working at level 2B for calculations but are struggling with problem solving, data, shape, space and measures.

AND JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD 7 YEARS OUT, DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. TEACHING HASN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH. DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP ABOUT IT!!!!

mrz Fri 27-May-11 20:00:31

Mum2be79 it comes in the Y2 framework so I guess the OPs daughter is doing well and working at level 2

mrz Fri 27-May-11 20:02:18

*Add or subtract mentally a one-digit number or a multiple of 10 to or from any two-digit number*;

mrz Fri 27-May-11 20:02:29
mrz Fri 27-May-11 20:04:42
MilaMae Fri 27-May-11 20:33:50

Wow I knew MN would come to my aid,fab links all!!!!

She's in a very bright class,with literacy she's a natural but she has zero confidence with maths(although her teacher assures me she's doing well at it). She just says blankly I don't know instead of trying to work it out.It's really strange as my boys are natural mathematicians always pondering sums they've made up etc. This kind of thing they just kind of knew.

DD counts back in ones,gets it right a lot of the time but clearly she should be doing it in 10s as takes ages. There are some amazing mathematicians in her class, and she keeps saying she can't get the answers quick enough.I think she panics and shuts down then is furious with herself and thinks she's crap because she didn't get the answer quick enough.I've seen her on the carpet freezing and I just know she's not using her mental skills to work things through.

She's really hard on herself actually with everything,never experienced this with my boys.She has twin brothers a year older as well as this bright class which doesn't help.I really need to raise her confidence in maths but no idea how.

Those games will really help,determined to crack it over half term.

Thanks Mumtob

Many thanks all

mrz Fri 27-May-11 20:41:38

MilaMae actually if she's working on counting back in 10s she's working at a higher level than expected for Y1. I'm guessing she's being hard on herself

MilaMae Fri 27-May-11 22:04:58

She can do the counting back in tens(I think I'll go over it a lot in the car so she's pretty fluent) but it seems a big jump to do it with any given number,any tips on how to actually explain the concept before attacking some of these activities,wondering if I'm wording it wrong??

Many thanks for being so patient.

I'm really pleased with her but her teacher seems very fixed on wanting her to get the concept ie(hoping it'll just click doesn't seem to be an option).Just slightly concerned that if she's the only one not quite there her confidence will dip further.

TIA

mrz Sat 28-May-11 09:34:56

The difference is she is being asked to count back in tens from a number that isn't a multiple of 10 so from 64 rather than 60. Really what she needs to recognise is that the first number (the tens) decreases by 1 if you subtract 10.
64
54
44
34
24
14
4

tell her she's doing well because her teacher is asking her to do Y2 work

MilaMae Sat 28-May-11 10:03:41

Will do,thanks will try that,might write it out as you've just done too.

Don't know if you noticed but I mentioned you on site stuff,suggested they ask your views as you're a lot more up to date with phonics etc than the likes of me(hope you don't mind). They wanted views on the Pearson/phonics pages on here.

mrz Sat 28-May-11 10:17:51

I'm flattered

We use something called BIg Maths free downloads you might want to try out

Do you mean the Pearson BugClub?

sarahfreck Sun 29-May-11 23:59:14

To be honest, I think lots of younger children do need the support of physical materials in amths for a long while. I would definitely use a number square and show her how if you count back form 34 you get to 24 etc. Practice it a bit with a number square, first counting, then just moving finger back a row. She will pick it up and be able to do it without the number square pretty quickly I'm guessing!! ( The teacher need never know she went through that stage!!)

blackeyedsusan Mon 30-May-11 00:05:17

iwould use a number square to get herr familiar with the process first...

newportstateofmind Mon 30-May-11 00:14:05

Never tried to create a link before so hope this works.

This is a nice interactive 100 sq
www.primarygames.co.uk/pg2/splat/splatsq100.html
and there are some fun games here
www.ictgames.com that your dd might enjoy.

I would also suggest using some kind of unifix blocks that you can make into blocks of tens and ones (I would make all the 'tens' blocks the same colour) then practice making a number, e.g. a 'ten' and 5 ones, then adding more 'tens' or taking 'tens' away so that she can see visaully what the numbers represent.

Also lots of practice of counting, e.g. 2, 12, 22, 32, 42, just like you have been doing with 10, 20, 30, as some children find hearing the pattern helpful.

newportstateofmind Mon 30-May-11 00:15:46

visually sorry

And I hope the long and involved explanation of the unifix blocks makes sense!!

Kat1111 Mon 06-Jun-11 02:41:36

Hi,

I work with SEN children in Y4, so they are at level 1/2, which sounds like your DD. Not to imply that your daughter is SEN, just I'm used to using methods to help children grasp ideas.

I don't like number squares, personally. I think the best method is place value, like others have said. There are some very good games that teach place value on its own- look at http://www.ictgames.com/sharknumbers.html and http://www.ictgames.com/LIFEGUARDS.html in particular. Once your DD can spot place value, then show her that -10 is minus one ten but no units, so the tens column is one less, but the units isn't affected.

Runoutofideas Mon 06-Jun-11 07:57:36

I'm not a teacher but I just asked dd1 (yr1) as I didn't know if she could do it. I just said "what is 53 take away 10" and she gave the correct answer. When I asked her how she did it she said she used to count backwards on her fingers but then realised that she could just take 1 away from the 5 (of the 53) and it was the same.

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