dd repeatedly falling asleep at school - need opinions and advice

[mrsbabookaloo]

DD1 is nearly 5, and started school in Jan. She likes her sleep and has always been a good sleeper - she sleeps 7:30 til 7:30 most nights and we have a very set bedtime routine. Before the Easter hols, she fell asleep at school 3 times, each time for a significant amount of time, and once in the morning at 9:30 for the whole morning! We put this down to an ear infection that we were a bit slow to identify.

Now she's back at school she's fallen asleep 3 times in the last week and a half, for at least an hour each. The first one could possibly have been jet lag, as we were less than a week back from California, but now I think it's just turning into a habit.

She never naps spontaneously at home, only has a daytime nap if she got up exceptionally early, and I insist that she naps for 10 mins after lunch.

What do you think is causing this? My theories are that she's growing, or that she's bored. Otherwise it's something health related.

And what do you think the teacher and teaching assistant's should do? I've already said that they should wake her after 10 or 15 mins, but they seem reluctant to really shake her awake and say she is in a very deep sleep. She is hard to wake when she's just gone off - at home I do it with biscuits or telly, which is not really practical at school!

It doesn't seem ok to be asleep at school for this long, I mean, she's missing stuff!

Any advice or experience gratefully received!

[MigratingCoconuts]

reception made my DD very tired indeed. This was not usually at school but at home in the evenings she would be distraught and beside herself.

I would have thought that school is making your DD tired. there is a lot for them to take in. Wha is her day like when at home after school? Could she rest then or go to bed earlier?

[Eglu]

Is there a reason you insist on her having a lunchtime nap? Does she have it on school days?

Some children do find reception tiring, but it is possible she is just in the habit of napping and you should stop all naps.

[FreudianSlipOnACrown]

It just sounds like she's not physically ready for the demands of school yet, poor little thing. Does she enjoy it?

I think my DD will be exhausted by school next year. She probably won't fall asleep in school as she tends to go into overdrive in that sort of environment - but when she gets home, oh dear god the tantrums. If it were not for the fact that she adores nursery I would be homeschooling from the start, but if she appears totally overwhelmed (physically - in other ways such as socially I'm confident she will be fine) then we will take her out for a year or two.

[cubscout]

I think it might be worth trying Eglu's suggestion of cutting out all naps. My ds was always a sleep lover, at nursery he was still having a 2 hr nap (age 4) and I had to stop all naps the term before reception. It took a while to adjust, and starting school is very tiring.

I put ds to bed earlier in the evening (6.30 asleep by 7), made sure he had a big breakfast to keep him going and did very little after school for the first couple of terms.

[asdx2]

Have you checked her hearing? It may be that she isn't hearing well and so turns off and falls asleep. My brother was discovered to have only 25% hearing after falling asleep repeatedly in reception. Because he had learned to lip read and spoke well and managed fine at home nobody had noticed.

[ConnorTraceptive]

I would try putting her to bed at 7pm instaed. DS is 6 and has only just started going to bed at 7.30pm.

I would drop all naps at home even if she has woken early in the morning

[boysrock]

All of the above plus its worth getting her bloods checked. toddler anaemia can still affect this age group and whereas she can cope at home school seems to suffer. or so we've found with ds.

[CarGirl]

My sleeper went to bed at 6pm when she was in reception, I think 7.30pm is actually quite late tbh

[Colourworld]

I've read recently that some jabs like swine flu cause narcolepsy where the kids sleep for many hours during the day. If not then let the doctor check her. Could be a lack of some vitamins and/or minerals.

[girliefriend]

I 2nd getting her hearing checked? Is she a snorer as might have an problem with adenoids or sleep apnoea. My dd struggled with tiredness at the beginning of reception and still is very tired esp at the end of the wk but hasn't ever fallen asleep in her class to my knowledge!!! I would take her to the gp and have a chat about it.

[SE13Mummy]

It sounds as though she's exhausted. Reception is a massively stimulating environment so it may be worth considering a combination of an earlier bedtime, going to school mornings only or for three days a week or any other part-time arrangement and see if that makes a difference.

My 6.5 year old DD is in bed each night by 7pm but still gets tired and grumpy towards the end of the week - school is hard work (I'm a teacher and I feel tired as the week goes on!).

A change in energy levels is worth investigation by the GP; it may be that your DD's body is out of synch as the result of the ear infection and California trip (plus the busy school life) but may also be as the result of something else. Narcolepsy doesn't usually involve a single, extended period of daytime sleep so that sounds unlikely.

[mrsbabookaloo]

Thank you all for these interesting responses - sorry it has taken me ages to get back online.

Many of you have said that she must be exhausted....I don't know why I don't think this is the case...maybe it's a case of me being too close to the situation and actually missing the obvious explanation.

She's not a delicate flower in any way...we go to the playground after school - she's keen to go, and though she's tired and a bit uncooperative by bedtime, I've never felt she's overtired and she is not a big tantrummer.

Before school she was used to longer days at nursery, but only 3 days, not 5.

As for the naps at home, I wasn't clear. This is only very occasionally at the weekend, if for some reason's she's woken up at 6am (dd2 is regularly up at this time).

Maybe I should try an earlier bedtime; of course, it can't do any harm, though it might be tricky to do...I'm not sure I can organise tea and bath any earlier, and dh would miss seeing her......and I do not want to put early-rising dd2 to bed any earlier!! Still, might give 7pm a whirl.

And will go back to doctor re hearing and the other health things people mentioned. Toddler anaemia suggestion is interesting, although she is a huge meat eater, so not that likely.

Any more thoughts?

[CarGirl]

The difference between nursery and reception especially at this point in the year is that they are learning much more and they have higher behavioural expectations on them, many more rules to follow etc.

I'm convinced it's the being well behaved all day that's the killer in terms of tiredness.

Even my incredible non-sleep needing child took a while to adjust to school and needed to go to bed at 7pm for the only time in her life!

I would bring her whole routine forward, we also explained that being a big girl and not having naps anymore means that she had to go to bed earlier on school nights. Or you put them in bed and let them look at books whilst you get the younger one to bed - lo and behold they used to pass out.

Some dc don't get grumpy when they're tired, my 2 youngest just keep plodding on regardless, one of the older ones puts herself to bed!

[MigratingCoconuts]

I agree with cargirl. mine is not a 'delicate flower' either and didn't usually need sleep. however, school could sometimes do for her. Its a huge adjustment for them to take on board.

You could try for a 'down time' as soon as she gets home?

[FreudianSlipOnACrown]

I think you might need to stop taking her to the park etc after school - sounds like a vicious cycle IMO. Sometimes overtiredness manifests itself in masses of energy!

Just noticed she is not 5 yet. Did you know it's not a legal requirement for DCs to be in school FT until the term after their fifth birthday - for your DD that'd be September. So you could just send her in the mornings or only a few days a week. My friend did this with her august born DS for the whole of reception. The school weren't happy but she knew her rights and stuck with what was best for him.

[MigratingCoconuts]

yes, i was wondering that too Freudian. I don't think it would harm her education in the slightest to drop to a few mornings only a week, until she is old enough to cope with the whole thing.

[mrsbabookaloo]

OK, thanks everyone. Taking on board the idea that she might be tired despite my ideas to the contrary.

I do know that she is not legally required to be in school - however I felt she was 100% ready for it, and I wouldn't want her to be different from the other kids - am sure she'll adjust, and I guess if that means napping at school, then that's as good a way of coping as any.

The same goes for going to the playground after school - it would be a big wrench for her not to do what all her friends are doing, and dd2 also needs to go out in the pm after her nap.

Dd2 also a consideration with the whole earlier bedtime thing - I certainly wouldn't want to put her to bed any earlier - she was up at 5:30 today. But I will try to put dd1 to bed earlier, and explain that it's because she's falling asleep in school....

Thanks

[CarGirl]

How old is your dd2? Perhaps you could cut her day time nap shorter so she sleeps longer at night? Sadly two of 4 dc stopped their naps at just 2 .

[sunnyday123]

Hiya not read all the thread but i don't think 7.30pm is too late for a child. My dd1 is 5 and sleeps 7.45pm til 7am. My dd age 3 sleeps 7.30 til 6.30. DD1 is never tired in the day really but even when she is it wouldn't be til after 6pm. I would be more concerned that your DC is napping so early in the day - if it were later then i would expect that after a busy day at school. If she's tired not long after she gets there then thats different. What was she like before easter? 3 times in 3 months not too bad but 3 times in the past week sounds like its getting worse.

I'm not sure the occasional nap if she gets up early makes much difference if she's still sleeping at night. Does she sleep though? Waking during the night may explain things.

If it's recent i would ask the doctor as she must have been in school a couple of months before easter so would have expected the problem to have been worse straight away.

Narcolepsy could still be considered though as people with this never get into a deep sleep as night and so even though it seems they have slept loads, if they wake up subconsiously lots you can still be tired. I too have read lots of cases of this since the flu jab (which mine both had . I'm sure its probably more simple than this but still worth asking the doc.

[CarGirl]

There is certainly worth asking the dr but all 3 of my summer born children did struggle with tiredness in reception, the one who "needs" her sleep would be sleeping 6pm until 8am some todays, the next one (the non-sleeping child) slept from 7pm for the first term and then adapted - from the age of 5 (ie as she started year 1) she probably started going to sleep about 8.30pm and from the age of 6 anything up to 9.30pm! My youngest was more average and definately needed earlier nights than average during reception but now in year 1 it's 7.30pm until 7am.

[mrsbabookaloo]

sunnyday123; I agree, I think if school were tiring her out, why did this only manifest itself just before Easter rather than in Jan or Feb? I'm not ruling out the possibilty, but it seems odd.

The time she napped in the morning, as you say, was especially worrying, but it was a one off - possibly she was ill - since then its always been after lunch.

As for whether she sleeps thru, she often wakes in the night, just for a drink or a wee, but it has crossed my mind that she might be awake for longer than I realise.