Can a yr1 dc's performance have changed this much?

[daisysmama]

Last year we were told dd was extremely bright by her reception teacher. She was reading at yr2 levels by the end of the year and her maths was said to be even better. She was a fair way ahead of the rest of the class fwiw.

This year her reading continues to progress at a reasonable pace (although no thanks to school who don't differentiate much for her as far as I can see).

But the teacher's view of dd's maths seems strange. We were given a current level of 1b at parents eve last week. The teacher said her target for dd was maybe a 1a possibly one higher for the end of the year. At standard rates of progress she wouldn't even be a level 3 by the end of year 2. How can a child who was supposedly very able at maths now be so average? I know they can plateau at this age but surely not that much?

You might say what do levels matter but the work she is getting is not matching up with what she can do and is similar to what she could do easily a year ago. There is potentially an issue of her having got a bit bored/ complacent and making mistakes through not concentrating?

I don't have much faith in the teacher tbh - she is quite inexperienced whereas the one last year was very experienced and seemed to get dd. I heard last year there was an issue with some errors the current teacher made which I can't go into as it might identify me/ the school! And they might not be true anyway.

I hate to keep questioning the teacher (have had to about other things a couple of times and was proved right...) but this doesn't stack up to me. What can I do?

[CheeseMeisterGeneral]

Daisy, i understand your concerns entirely, have had exactly the same experience as you with my DD in the last two weeks.

l too have issues with grading and what that could possibly mean for the end of year two, but l have found you need to tread carefully in making too much of the actual grade for fear of being labelled too pushy.

The view of many will be as long as she is happy she is far too young for you to be concerned with levels at this stage. However l am of the opinion that my 'DD' need not be concerned but l as a parent can have a level of concern which is healthy.

The grades are given based on evidence witnessed by the teacher or TA. l found looking on the web at what the criteria are very helpful. l could then see if my DD had any gaps in knowledge.

Much of this is also down to confidence and verbal communication at school by the pupil. If your child is happy to speak up and verbally highlight their maths knowledge etc the job of the teacher to find evidence is obviously made a bit easier. My DD is on the quiet side and will take a back seat in group work, given a class of 30 l cannot expect 1:1 time being given too regularly.

l asked the teacher for a follow up appointment as the 10 minute parents evening one was not long enough. l made it very clear that DD's education was 50/50 between the school and at home and we wanted some more guidance on what we could be working on to help DD. However l did not try to say l actually think my DD should be graded higher than a 1B. Its a tricky one good luck.

[CheeseMeisterGeneral]

Try this link:


nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/64668

[PoppetUK]

I've seen a few times in class that evidence is collected from the work they actually do and some of this work is done completely independently without the teacher standing right over them. It might go into a folder and count as evidence toward their grading but what the child can actually do is a completely different thing if the teacher is sat with them. Not sure if this makes sense. I had a whole year with my daughter with her work looking nothing like what she could achieve. In fact it got worse because she was unhappy and bored and the teacher wasn't differentiating. I will add this wasn't in the UK state system. I spoke to the teacher and it made things a whole heap worse for DD

[daisysmama]

Thanks Cheese. I have looked at the assessment criteria too which left me doubting the level even more.

Yes it could be the quietness thing. DD is relatively quiet too and I know there are some strong personalities in her group who might well get their answers to questions in first. It shouldn't be that way though should it?

[wheelsonthebus]

Yikes - looking at the guidelines, you would have to be able to verbally explain maths pretty well. (But) a child could be great at maths but have difficulty verbalising how they reached the answer. We have told dd that diversion is inverted multiplication - she, of course, doesn't quite get that yet - but she can do division. In short, I think the levels are totally unhelpful.

[wheelsonthebus]

whoops, i mean division is inverted multiplication (jees...no wonder dd doesn't understand )

[BaroqueAroundTheClock]

ahhh yes Cheese makes a good point. DS1's YR4 teacher said to me "I think he's X level, but I'm not sure as he doesn't really show me what he can do". They can only grade on what they can see (which ime is frequently very different at home than it is at school).

[daisysmama]

Squidgy, I have been wondering about suggesting the current year 1 teacher has a chat with last year's teacher but think they will just see me as a pain in the backside because they are both busy!

DD loves numbers and it seems such a shame she is coasting like this - and yes in theory their assessment of her would have gone backwards if she was so far ahead in reception and now is average or just a bit above average. I doubt she has got less confident as it seems to me she has come out of her shell more. Unless it is this making silly mistakes/ switching off thing

[IndigoBell]

She will be targeted to make 3 sub levels, ie a whole level, in Y2, not the 2 sublevels that is often quoted on MN.

So she is on target to achieve a 2a next year. But frequently Y2 kids make more than 3 sub levels.

A 1a is above average for end of Y1. And this is the problem with reception teachers telling you she is 'very able'. In reception she might have been, while in Y1 she is only 'above average'

[Michaelahpurple]

Sorry to be so uninformed, but have seen several references recently to 1a, 2, 3 etc. Is this a national curriculum grading, part of the "level4/5 at KS2 by class 6" thing? (am not in state school, so we don't get such clear metrics)

[daisysmama]

Yes Michaela. As far as I know it is in place in all state schools. CheeseMeister's link has more info.

Typically kids will reach level 2 by the end of year 2 and level 4 by the end of primary.

[CheeseMeisterGeneral]

Can I add a couple of things:

1. I personally got the impression from my school that the grade at this point may be the final one for the academic year end. l questioned this as there is about 13 weeks of school to go before then ??? Even if thats based on ability surely another 3 months of tuition should make some gains on the grade ?
   
   
2. l have been reliably informed by parents of older DCs that the summer term often brings a leap in performance, perhaps something to do with less viruses and the weather ?

[BaroqueAroundTheClock]

bear in mind though cheese that if they gained a grade every term then a child of 2a at the end of year 2 would be a 6a at the end of Y6 (using the theory that they can gain a grade each term iykwim?)

[CheeseMeisterGeneral]

Baroque ,,, ahh take your point ! however assessment should be a continuous progress and the ability work groups within class a fluid thing.

l personally think this is where children get kind of assessed at one level and they can get stuck there, the top five in a class never changes and they steam ahead ??

[lovecheese]

Hello fellow cheeseperson; couple of points to remember, children are expected to make 2 full levels of progress between year 2 and year 6 - if you even this out it means 6 sub-levels over 4 years ( yet?) BUT and it is a big BUT, they do not always slot neatly into their targetted progress levels, and if a child really does have the ability then that should become apparent. My own DD made 6 sub-levels of progress from the end of reception to the end of year 1 - yes, six - whereas my older DD has made .....drum roll....2 sub-levels of progress in one area in 2 1/2 years. As for the top five in a class never changing and steaming ahead, yes I think you have a good point, certainly there has been a core of DCs starting ahead and staying ahead but with "Late entries" in years 4 or 5 - so therefore NOT set in stone.

[IndigoBell]

Y2 SATS grades are submitted by next half term - not by end of the year.

Don't be surprised if your DC do no work at all in the last half term if they go to an Infants school.

[daisysmama]

And the first half of the summer term is ridiculously short this year.

Love the idea of the nicer weather meaning children make more progress in the summer term but wouldn't that mean kids in sunny all year places such as Florida or Aus would be streets ahead . All the pushy competitive mums will be emigrating to such places by the end of the week....

[CheeseMeisterGeneral]

Lovecheese .

MMmm my DD has made 4 sub levels of progress from reception thus far, which her teacher was at pains to point out as being really good 'progress'. l hope l articulated to her l was more into knowing that DD was using her ability to reach her potential. This is where my concern of coasting for the final term came from.

Daisy - off to book my flight now . But seriously are you going to go back and chat to the teacher ?

[daisysmama]

I think she already thinks I'm such a total pain in the butt from previous conversations that I daren't. But that's ridiculous for me to worry about that versus dd's best interests.

I will be interested to see if there are any teachers around this eve with a view on what they would think in this situation!

[IndigoBell]

Sorry - I just read this properly

Are you saying in Reception they told you she was working at a Y3 level (therefore at least a 2a) and yesterday they told you she was a 1b.

Then she hasn't plateued - she's gone backwards.

[daisysmama]

Not exactly. We were told that she was reading at y2 level and her maths was even further ahead.

So no-one explicitly said what level that was.

But the implication is yes that her maths has gone backwards based on the two teachers' views. That is what's bugging me.

The only explanation apart from one of them being off the mark, is that maybe there are aspects of maths this year that she is weaker at that the yr r teacher did not look at or consider.

So in a narrow range of skills eg. counting and sumes that dd was working at say yr 2 levels, but there are wider skills required in yr 1 such as shape and measuring?

[IndigoBell]

Absolutely.

Reception is in the EYFS, whereas Y1 is in KS1.

The maths has (I think) 8 strands. Understanding and manipulating numbers is only 1 strand.

So it is totally possible her understanding and manipulating numbers is very far ahead - but the rest of the stuff isn't.

And the Reception teacher just hadn't assessed her on that stuff.

That would make sense. It's pretty hard to pick up all 8 strands if no one's taught it too you.... but easier to just pick up the numbers strand.

[daisysmama]

It could be that then.
I do feel she could whizz through things much, much quicker and a lot of it is very basic but there is only a term really left and hopefully next year's teacher will get her better.