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Oh pls just explain the ORT to me??!

(30 Posts)
Herecomesthesciencebint Sat 09-Oct-10 22:29:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DreamTeamGirl Sat 09-Oct-10 23:19:32

No idea about Sparrows, but we have colours

Some level 4 are in one colour and some in another as it depends on length and language

NoahAndTheWhale Sat 09-Oct-10 23:27:31

There are some oxford reading tree guide things on their website somewhere.

Will look.

NoahAndTheWhale Sat 09-Oct-10 23:31:00

Have found 010/this but am sure there used to be one that was more of a tree.

I think that as they keep updating it, the older books don't get included in their charts although schools obviously still have them. DS and DD's school seems to have got lots of the newer ones (at least in DD's reception class) although I am sure there are older ones being used to. There is also at least one book that I have seen being in both level 3 (blue) and level 4 (red).

Not sure how much help this is grin

NoahAndTheWhale Sat 09-Oct-10 23:33:48

Looking at the one I have linked to, I am confused now anyway as DS has one on Stage 10, and that might be white level (on the age 4-7 page) or it might be brown level (on the age 7-11 page). At least he has slightly more interesting ones now (although DD has been having some good non-fiction ones too).

NoahAndTheWhale Sat 09-Oct-10 23:35:43

Oh gawd - Biff, Chip and Kipper are getting older. Not sure I can cope with such things grin

potplant Sat 09-Oct-10 23:36:37

Who knows. I think the school secretary throws them up into the air and then goes through randomly applying colours. DT1 went from a 10 page book to a 40 page without moving colour bands. That was the longest hour of my life!

ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave Sun 10-Oct-10 00:09:31

Noah, that's surprisingly disturbing -- more so than watching the Harry Potter kids grow up over the last decade, I think. They've been stuck at their original ages for years and years, and now they are flung forward in time.

AliceInHerPartyDress Sun 10-Oct-10 00:14:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

spanieleyes Sun 10-Oct-10 08:50:32

The problem is that the original Kipper books were written before the emphasis on phonics and are a Look and Say system, so much of the vocabulary doesn't follow the phonics systems schools now use. The books were then "shoe-horned" into the phonics book level colours depending on the difficulty of the phonic language rather than the Look and Say language. This means that some books in the same ORT stage are in different colour bands when assessed phonically and the same book band colour can also have ORT books from different stages, it is very complicated! A child can stay on the same colour book band but change stages, or change book band levels but stay on the same stage! Schools spent many a happy hour colour banding all their old ORT books into the new colour bands when they were introduced ( although this doesn't really work as the vocabulary is still the same!)

The new "Floppy's Phonics " books are based on their phonics level and come ready book bandedgrin

mrz Sun 10-Oct-10 10:26:49

The book banding colour system was introduced to make some link in "progression/difficulty" between different reading schemes and "real" books. The first system was introduced by Cliff Moon followed by the coloured book bands widely used now.
book bands cross ref
because ORT was published before this system levels overlap
book bands linked to reading ages

maizieD Sun 10-Oct-10 10:51:31

The most up to date ORT information

Now that OUP have done the right thing and produced a reading programme properly aligned with phonics teaching, perhaps it is time they ditched the early, 'look and say' Biff & friends books!

newbiemumof3 Sun 10-Oct-10 11:13:31

Having a bored sunday so reading random threads and followed the links.My six year old is on white(summer born year 2) - I simply cannot believe that she has a reading age of an eight year old! She is a fairly good reader but not really unusually so, I wouldn't have thought
Are these links to reading ages very old and based on previous generations' reading ages?

magicmummy1 Sun 10-Oct-10 11:58:10

I'm a bit hmm about those reading ages and NC levels too.

Mrz, what do the links to the NC levels actually mean? Presumably the NC reading levels are assessed on more than just the book band/reading level that children are on?

mrz Sun 10-Oct-10 12:11:07

magicmummy1 the department for education provided the table as a guide for teachers on a day to day basis when hearing readers obviously more stringent assessments take place throughout the school year. The assessments would indicate which book bands a child should be able to read (decoding text and comprehension) rather than the books indicating a NC level.

magicmummy1 Sun 10-Oct-10 12:14:13

Thank you, mrz - that makes a bit more sense. In your professional opinion, do you think those "reading ages" are accurate?

mrz Sun 10-Oct-10 12:21:19

Reading ages are notoriously variable depending on the test used but as a general guide they seem "accurate"

magicmummy1 Sun 10-Oct-10 12:25:33

Thank you mrz. That's interesting.

grandpainmypocket Sun 10-Oct-10 13:39:01 010/

This gives the impression that books all the way to lime are for 6 to 7 year olds so that contradicts their other reading age info.

Elibean Sun 10-Oct-10 14:01:28

Not sure it contradicts? In any group, there will be readers 'above' the average reading age as well as below, so they have to provide suitable 6-7 yr old material even if its 'older' than 6-7 in difficulty, I suppose.

FWIW, I'd say half of dd's Y2 class are on or near to being on White Level this term.

And, off topic, the few Lime level books the school have are so boring/inappropriate for 6yr olds that no one wants to read them - they beg to stay on White grin (unless they happen to be partial to Horrid Henry).

newbiemumof3 Sun 10-Oct-10 14:13:12

Elibean - that's what I mean really. DD at 6 and 3 months and being on white level doesn't seem very advanced to me and so these reading ages that say it is equivalent to 8 1/2 seem far too high to me.
If I had an 8 1/2 year old reading at that level that would seem a low level to me.confused

Elibean Sun 10-Oct-10 14:15:29

It is confusing. But I don't think an 8 year old reading at that level would be a problem at all, really...tbh, I take most of the 'age level' stuff with a pinch of salt. Mostly because I once had a boyfriend who learnt to read aged 7, and went straight to Lord of the Rings that very year! Whereas me, I started reading aged 3 and have spectacularly underachieved ever since wink

maizieD Sun 10-Oct-10 14:33:32


With regard to the 'reading ages' quoted by OUP, it would be useful to know whether they have been worked out according to standardised tests (where the tests are developed by testing a large sample of children and 'norming' them on the words most of the children can read; which is a fairly reliable, scientific method) or, whether they have been assigned to various 'ages' by criteria such as number of high frequency words, number of polysyllabic words, words thought to be within a child's spoken vocabulary and individual's subjective judgement. The 'non-scientific' method!

I was once shown a book (rep was trying to sell me 'low reading age, high interest' books) which was supposedly RA 6y and had the words Lamborghini and Porsche in itshock
(I hope I've spelled them correctly..)

blackeyedsusan Tue 12-Oct-10 13:15:06

ort - i once(11yrs ago-eek) came across a poster showing all the then current titles of ort. they are all listed on a picture of a tree. there are 6 trunk stories in each stage plus branches with, if i can remember more stories at a similar level and then there are 2 branches off the main branch with other books that are either harder(sparrows?) and a lot easier(wrens?)i think stage 3 wrens are easier than ordinary stage 2. i was working with stage 2 and 3 so don't know what was going on further up but think that they had more bird names. der not very enlightening sorry confused

PoppetUK Mon 06-Dec-10 22:21:28

Wow, half the class on / nearly on white. That's very impressive. We've just moved back from Australia and generally kids the same age are reading at a much lower level. Even though they start full time school a few months later it still doesn't account for the massive difference. Does this mean that the average child is really coming out with level 3 at the end of the year. I do love the fact that all the children seem to be given good skills enabling them to learn to read over here

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