My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Primary education

Please help with my hitting/kicking 6yo: at wits end (LONG)

49 replies

WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 19:54

Am at wits' end. Another heartsink moment at the end of the week. 4 weeks into y1 and he has been in to see the head again.

3 weeks ago (after 1 week of the year) he was hitting other children. So we spoke with the teachers and they suggested a behaviour chart, with smiley faces for each of 7 periods in the day, if he got 5 a day all week, he would get a reward. He HAS managed 5 most days (and 6 or 7 on some!) but the incidents where he has lost it have been serious, including today, kicking another boy in the groin, and two other incidents (one hitting, one punching)...

We have been doing everything we can to support the teachers and get on top of it. The behaviour chart comes home each day and we add a smiley face for the morning and evening if he's been behaving at home. Last week he was on course to get a reward but blew it at 3pm with a stupid incident which was not hitting related but did necessitate a trip to the head...

Today, he only got 4 smileys because of the incidents, yet got 7 yesterday, and got 5 or 6 out of 7 on previous days this week (the target he was set). I rang the teacher because I felt frustrated and worried that he isn't feeling himself making ANY progress in the last 2 weeks, even though he's been trying really hard. I feel they need to lower the bar a bit perhaps? I don't know... Maybe that would be sending the wrong message.

Today my DS told me that 2 out of the 3 incidents were under provocation - although I don't always believe what he tells me because he does sometime make stuff up, as 6yos do - but he seemed pretty sincere and serious about it. His version was that in the two kicking incidents, he was kicked first. He told the teacher this the first time, but says he wasn't listened to. If this was true, perhaps it isn't a surprise he didn't bother saying it the second time. Not that it makes it OK for him to kick as retaliation, my point is if it was true that he was provoked, perhaps the first time the teacher might have not given him a sad face on his chart, and perhaps the other incidents might not have happened. Unfortunately the first kicking incident was serious (in the groin of the other child), and he had to go to the head.

When I spoke to the teacher she hadn't seen it, but did say the reports of the two boys matched, so she had assumed my son was the main 'kicker'. I specifically asked if she or another member of staff had seen the incidents. The boys in the class are all pretty aggressive to each other, and though my son is the one using his fists/feet, the others are teasing him, calling him stupid and not letting him play. This is what he reports, although in reception, the teacher though he was quite happy.

We've been working hard at home too: he has an older and a younger brother and it is fair to say relations between the three of them are fairly stormy! Our rules are no hitting or hurting, and there is a consequence if they do it. We also try to encourage them NOT to retaliate, but to tell an adult. I have heard other parents say to their kids 'if someone hits you, hit them back'. I'm not quite sure how I'm able to stop my kid hitting in school with all the mixed messages he's getting. We are working also with our other two boys, especially the older one, who can be aggressive, competitive and frequently needs to 'win' even over his 5 year younger brother. And the youngest is 3 so pretty wild all on his own, so it is almost impossible to apply the same standards across the board, which my 6yo doesn't understand. But we've organised things - banned all computer screens except for homework between Monday-Friday, no TV in the mornings, clear rules about behaviour and respect for self and others, routines for getting ready etc. And beyond the basic expectations,, I'd like to think we give them freedom and choice and independence, but to be honest, I have no idea what it is that we're doing that is worsening the situation; and no idea beyond what we do already how I can influence what goes on at school.

We had a second phone call from the teacher later this afternoon after I rang her. She thinks it best we go in for a review with the teachers and head, and she has discussed it with the SENCO [argh! I am not sure what special educational needs he could have: does an uncontrollable temper fit some pattern?]

Can anyone help, especially primary teachers or parents with similar experiences? Or psychologists? Shrinks? Magicians? Prison governors? GrinSad

OP posts:
Report
WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 20:23
Smile
OP posts:
Report
jellyrolly · 01/10/2010 20:34

I wonder if the other children are being provocative because of the chart? Is it visible at school?

It sounds very frustrating for you. How is your DS feeling about it all?

Report
WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 20:44

I hope it's not visible. They do have the 'cloud' sunshine thing where they have their name put on it according to 'how they're feeling' which is code for 'being good/naughty' of course. I don't have too much of a problem with it as long as he's being helped off the cloud regularly, and as long as other kids aren't manipulating things!

It's an interesting point - I do think my son has become a bit of a scapegoat for some of the other children. He is quite a lot older than some of them (early September birthday) so quite tall, and intellectually confident, but not very emotionally mature (clearly!). He has also suffered from a bit of slippage with friendship cohorts - they all stayed put when he moved in our local nursery etc. So he's not yet formed any strong friendships in the group and I think a little cluster of boys might think of him as an 'intruder'.

OP posts:
Report
WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 20:47

My son is miserable actually: he's not sleeping well, is having lots of nightmares and not settling, cries a lot and often refuses to get ready in the mornings on school days. He says he doesn't like school and wants to stay at home, although he seems to get into lots of things.

The teachers have been working hard to help him too - they've worked out that the main issues arise as transitional times and he can't cope with the disorder! I guess much younger children are not doing things the way he would so some of his aggression is about trying to control stuff. They've tried to head this off a bit by giving him more responsible jobs - opening doors, cleaning the boards, being in charge of books etc. It seemed to be working well and now another dreadful Friday (knackered probably something to do with it...)

OP posts:
Report
jellyrolly · 01/10/2010 21:00

I know it's a platitude but most children and situations settle down. It sounds like there is some improvement but it is slow?

My eldest DS acts aggressively when he is overwhelmed (when he is anything out of the ordinary actually Wink). I have some success with working on empathy with him, you know the sort of thing, naming his feelings etc. I feel like a quack psychiatrist when I'm doing it but it does seem to help him.

You sound like a great mum and he obviously has a loving secure home so you should be proud of giving him that.

Report
FingandJeffing · 01/10/2010 21:06

I feel for you, it sounds like lots of people are trying to help. It would worry me that he is unhappy. Have you tried to do something that would make him happy outside school that is just for him, beavers or Karate (don't laugh!).

If you don't work you could try keeping him home for a bit? God I'll probably get flamed for that, maybe he just needs a little one on one with either you or his dad (could do it at the weekend).

I don't know punishing him seems pointless and reward system you have seems good. Does he need more sleep? I feel for you and for him, he is still a little guy.

Report
jellyrolly · 01/10/2010 21:14

I agree with a bit of time out. School is intense when it's going well so when it's hard work, imagine how exhausting it must be for such a young lad. You obviously aren't the sort of mum who would advocate skiving willy nilly so maybe a special day out would start to turn it around for him?

Report
WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 21:17

Aww, thanks for all your nice comments. We are trying hard and so are the teachers who are lovely.

Yes, we have realised there's a bit of a self-esteem issue going on, and just last week we took him to Beavers which he was thrilled about. I think it will help and he really wants to go on the first camp. Yes maybe a martial art would help too, at least to teach him appropriate use of controlled violence! Great idea...

I've also been trying to do more stuff with each boy on their own, as has their dad, but we both work full time so it is hard. I've bought a book on anger management (!) for kids, and I've 'planted a magical proud seed' Grin in his chest. Then he and I put our hands on heart when he's done something great and try to feel proud so the seed grows into a golden plum, then apple, then, um football Grin. He is very imaginative and LOVES this idea. But still, the kicking continues.

It's true - you have reminded me - he has made progress, but it's just so disappointing that it isn't reflected in school where the violence is mostly happening...

OP posts:
Report
WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 21:21

Yes, I'm seriously tempted to take him out next Friday! Unfortunately I can't - have unmoveable commitments then...

I also don't want to try and tell the teachers how to do their job - I have the utmost respect for their professionalism - but I do have concerns about the dynamic in the class. I held a birthday party for my son recently at a play barn and it was like a bleeding boxing match and I had to referee all the time... I don't think it is only that my son is stressed by the uncertainty of transition times, I suspect it is also that they are less manageable as a group then...

OP posts:
Report
FingandJeffing · 01/10/2010 21:23

Hmm one thing, I have a friend who had a fiesty little one and she used to talk about good choices. For example when a flashpoint situation occurs and a meltdown/hitting situation presents within the home she would ask "what would be a good choice here?" and present the options.

she believed that eventually you are training them to think when a difficult situation occurs rather than just react.

You sound really caring, you know deep down he will settle. Sorry I don't have any better ideas.

Report
jellyrolly · 01/10/2010 21:27

I think boys all through a tough adjustment phase and what he is learning now will serve him well in his later life. He's getting good support and understanding at home and school which does get less as they get older so maybe in the future - when he has it all figured out - it might be a blessing that this happened young? He will find his way, he sounds like a lovely sensitive imaginative boy.

I find the Stanley wossiname book, The Challenging Child, a great help. It's enlightening about children and their stages of development, not just challenging children.

Report
WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 21:38

Thanks both, I will look up that book, and have a go with the 'helpful choices' thing: I did say to him about today whether it worked out well for him to have kicked, and he realised he got nothing out of it, quite the opposite...

OP posts:
Report
jellyrolly · 01/10/2010 21:45

I hope you have a nice non-schooly weekend, lots of love and laughter!

Report
WilfShelf · 01/10/2010 23:13

Oh god, I've just twigged why they might have spoken to the SENCO... DH just told me he had talked to one of the teachers (it's a jobshare...) and apparently DS had had to leave the room when someone was hoovering. He is VERY phobic about loud noises (screams in fear, trembles etc at fire alarms, hoovers, lawnmowers, hand dryers etc).

He's very able intellectually and can be a bit obsessed (eg went ON and ON about his world cup Panini cards, so much that the Reception teacher had to give him a certificate to stop him going on about it...!)

I think they are wondering about ASD? But I think this would be madness. I don't know much about it, but he'd be the last kid I'd imagine to be like that: he loves eye contact, is pretty empathetic, cuddly, waves bye to us when we drop him off and cracks a big smile when we pick him up. He likes to share (sometimes).

Now DH, I do often wonder if he has a touch of the ASD spectrum about him, but DS2 is a little romantic in comparison!

OP posts:
Report
Anenome · 01/10/2010 23:49

Well...my own DD is 6 and also has a big aversion to hand driers etc...she has behaved quite oddly at her school in the past...nobody has suggested she needs assesing....your son sounds sensitive and frustrated. How is he getting on with the work?

I see the little boys in DD's class beating one another up daily! I think thaat yourDD's teachers sound very good...they're doing a lot and you are obviously watching and helpin closely. I would think he will setle soon....aswell as martial arts you could consider drama club. Sometimes it's very ood for kids who have an excess of enrgy and are also bright.

Report
WilfShelf · 02/10/2010 11:56

Thanks. I really do think that would be a massive red herring. He gets on very well with his schoolwork, but there is an issue in more unstructured moments. This is true of lots of kids though, as is the handdrier thing...

Drama club might be great for him actually - he has a fantastic imagination. Do you know how I can find out about them?

OP posts:
Report
EBDteacher · 02/10/2010 14:43

More likely they would be considering sensory intergration issues with regards to the loud noises etc. Could theoretically explain struggling with transitions and playtimes when there is more noise and movement to process. It is a separate issue to ASD (your son does NOT sound ASD at all) but can look a bit similar and is often co-morbid with ASD.

There is not a great deal that can be done about sensory processing issues other than manage the overload they cause. Where the difficulty is mild it can help just to cue the child in to what is going to happen in any given situation so they are more prepared for it and can manage their response to it better. If it is causing a bigger problem for a child it might be necessary for them to have ear defenders at noisy times or have a quiet space to go to at more disorderly times.

I am not suggesting your son had these difficulties. Just suggesting what the school might be investigating based on my experience. Good luck- sounds like you're doing a great job to me. Smile

www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/index.html

Report
EBDteacher · 02/10/2010 14:49

BTW we have found that 'blowing' rewards at the last minute is common with sensory difficulties because the pressure of being nearly there makes the children overload more easily!

Your son's school may need to work out the time period over which he can cope with earning a reward. It may be that a week (or even a whole day) is too long and the build up of pressure is actually adding to the problem.

Report
EBDteacher · 02/10/2010 14:52

integration Blush Write these things on reports daily and still can't spell them!!

Report
WilfShelf · 02/10/2010 17:33

Thank you EBDTeacher for those really helpful posts Smile - I will look at that website and bear it in mind when we have our meeting with the school next week. Very interesting about the 'blowing' rewards bit, and the pressure of noisy times - that is now beginning to 'kerching' a bit with others bits of his experience.

OP posts:
Report
dikkertjedap · 02/10/2010 19:53

I can't really give any advice, as I have not experienced a situation like this directly. However, in dd's class is a little boy which sounds a little bit like yours (but younger obviously) and all kids in the class already talk about him (xxx was sent to the head teacher again today for hitting yyy). So he is clearly already marginalised. I know the staff and parents are working on in, but not sure in how far the other kids are involved in this (I think not).

Would it help to invite another boy at the time to play in the weekend (or afterschool if they are not too tired), so he can try to (re)build some friendships??? Also, may be going to bed earlier during the week so he is not tired and maybe less irritated???

Report
WilfShelf · 02/10/2010 23:32

Oh, my poor little boy is having another disturbed night again. He has been up and down, unhappy, almost sleepwalking pretty much every night for a week. Or longer. At least since the first time he had to see the head...

Tonight I feel like we have failed him in some way. And now I am very worried about labelling and scapegoating, because even if he stops hitting, the other kids, and the teachers, will have a 'view' of him, won't they? Sad

OP posts:
Report
SDeuchars · 03/10/2010 14:03

Have you consideredelective home education (EHE)? Even if you only did it for a year or two, it would allow your DS to mature a bit and he may then find it easier to deal with the sensory issues. Also, the activities may be less chaotic by that time. Many people find children with sensory integration problems are much better when EHE because they have control over which situations they go into and how long they stay.

Report
brassband · 03/10/2010 14:48

I think the school are over reacting.Your DS sounds so normal to me.When you have a large group of 5 and 6 yo boys, it is almost inevitable they are going to hype each other up and there will be kicking and punching going on when no adults are about.it's what little boys natural impulse is to do!Amy mother of 3 or 4 closely spaced boys will tell you that! DS1 and 2 are at grammar school and have seen ampong their friends that there is a bit of gentle rough-housing going on almost like a male-bonding type of thing.
i also think there is a danger that your DS is being scapegoated.IME if children know that teasing a child is going to hit the jackpot every time ,then they will do it.
Also it looks as if his behaviour is deteriorating towards the end of the week as he is getting more tired, especially if the poor little fella is having disturbed nights

I would continue being loving and supporting at home and get him to tell you what is going on directly before the hit/punch/kick.

Report
WilfShelf · 03/10/2010 15:23

Thanks, deuchars and brassband, for your thoughtful posts.

I don't think I could HE, although would never rule it out if things got really bad. I'm hoping this will blow over. I have two other boys and can't give up my job and don't want to either.

Perhaps they have over-reacted. I am certainly worried about the scapegoating. It is quite possible both the other kids AND the teachers, all unwittingly, are scapegoating him. It happens all the time in close groups, and I won't let it continue if there is a hint of it not being managed. I talked to DH about this last night and this is going to be the main thing we want to address in our meeting next week. I really DON'T think there are SEN issues, although if that is on their agenda I will of course listen to what they have to say. I looked at the sensory integration site someone linked to and only one of the diagnostic factors really rings true - the noise aversion. But I know LOADS of kids who don't like loud noises! Maybe there's something else I'm not seeing but they will have to convince me if this is their concern...

I have seen this group of boys in a number of different classes (eg in nursery, in reception etc), out of school (at summer fairs, parties, at each others' houses) and it really is NOT just my boy doing the hitting, kicking etc. He is tall, and smart, and we're pushy parents Grin: perhaps he stands out more? Would that be insulting to the teachers to think that. I'm sure they're professional but I'm really worried about first the labelling, and next, the impact of the negative monitoring of his behaviour.

If anyone has any suggestions about how to approach the review meeting, I'd be grateful?

I need to be clear though: I'm NOT suggesting my kid is an angel beyond reproach, and I do believe in disciplining children who hurt others, but the issue is the entire focus (to us) seems to be on HIM and not the dynamic in the class.

OP posts:
Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.