afraid for children's safety at school.

[highlandspringerdog]

My children are due to return to their primary school next week.

During the last months of the last term at school there were a number of incidents which led to me feeling worried about what has been going on there.

I tried to get them into other schools over the holidays, including private schools, but have not had any success as they are all full. I put it out of my head while we were in Italy for the last couple of weeks but now we are back and I am full of dread about their return.

I do not want to go into huge depth about exactly what has happened as I do not want to be identified and the incidents are all fairly specific, but to give some idea - children are at times - I do not know how often - left largely unsupervised at play time, even young children in the infants - there will be an adult outside, but they will be sitting on a bench, drinking tea with two other adults, often facing inwards, so most of the playground is not visible to them, they intervene when children approach them but not otherwise. I have seen this myself twice and on raising it with other parents, found that others had seen it too.

Children are not always registered properly -on more than one occassion children are slipped into class late after the register has gone and the register is not updated. I know this as I thought this was what was happening on one occassion when I brought DD in late following dentist appointment, but then couldn't quite believe it so checked with the school secretary who confirmed that if a child is too late they don't get put on the register 'but the teacher always knows who's in and who's not'.

Some very dubious punishments are used also - always just about the right side of the line drawn before physical violence. Despite the harsh punishments however, the atmosphere there is not calm, but chaotic and there is a lot of fighting between the children. I have seen bruises and cuts on my own children from this, but when I have tried to speak to the teacher about it, to check if the alarming stories my sons are telling me are true, she doesn't know what has happened, says she is sorry and that is all.

The head teacher is very hostile to anything other than praise and if a complaint is made against a teacher - as many are - the head will not deal with it unless the parent is willing to come and meet with the complained about teacher and complain face to face. This reduces the number of complaints as many parents do not want to risk the complaint resulting in adverse consequences for their children. I have never tried to complain, but this is what I have been told by many others is the standard approach.

I know my children should not go to this place. It has been the subject of numerous complaints to ofsted and the local education authority, and many families have done the right thing and got their kids out. It was the fact that so many announced their decision to remove their children in the last week of the summer term that really made me think that I was overlooking something important.

I have come to all this late in the day - possibly because I have a nanny and so do not take or collect my children from school and so have not been able to find everything out as quickly as those with more regular access to playground chat. I now wish I had been more clued up earlier and sought places in other schools last year, instead of in the final week of last term, which is when it appears to have reached boiling point.


What would you do?

I have not spoken to the children about this.

[IndigoBell]

I agree with Riven.

If you have a nanny, can she home educate your children while you find another school?

Put your children down on the waiting list for every other school. A place will turn up soon. And a term or so at home with a caring nanny won't do them any harm at all. However going to a school where they are getting hurt might....

The school will never change while the same head is there. If you think your children aren't safe, you are probably right.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

I wouldn't send my child back here. Is it a private school? If not, you are within your rights to complain to the LEA and Ofsted. A private school complaints procedure is different, IIRC it's the independant schools council and ofsted.

[AMumInScotland]

If you are this worried about their safety, you have to take your children out. You can try explaining to the LEA why you are not prepared to send your DC to the school, and see if they can find you any spaces at another school. If they can't provide a space somewhere else, then you are really left with the Home Education option. Is your nanny there all day and able to at least supervise the DC, if not take responsibility for Home ed? Home Education does not have to be 9 till 3 Monday to Friday, so even if the nanny is uncomfortable about taking full responsibility for it you can still ensure they do some activities with her and some with you in evenings and weekends.

[highlandspringerdog]

Thanks a lot for the replies.

I agree - I have to take them out. The problem with approaching the LEA is that they may then say 'ok then, they can go to this other school' - which would obviously be huge amounts better than the current place and better than staying there for ever, could and in all liklihood would, if it has spaces, be pretty rubbish. I have to think about it longterm - my youngest is only 4 years old and so what I want to try and do is move them from this place, but not let my desperation force me to put them into another place that is better, but still not good enough to spend the whole of primary school in.

It is a state school, though it is a weird state school - they constantly ask for money.

The home schooling option is very interesting and could give us some time to hold out for a decent school - we are really not massively picky, i just live in an area with a lot of schools that are not very good and after their experience here, I don't want to inflict another bad school experience on my children. Complicated by fact nanny about to go on maternity leave! However that means I could look around for a a nanny with the specifics of this situation in mind. That is going to be really difficult.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

Is there a private school that's accessible in the next county? (within driving distance)

[highlandspringerdog]

I live in London. There is no prospect of us driving to the next county for school! Also, I hate the idea of private schools so I don't want to do that as a long term option, though if I get desperate I will do it. I looked into it over the summer but the ones close to us were all full.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

I wouldn't put them in a private school unless you were going to keep them there.
Your best bet is to keep them at home until you find a school that you like and that has spaces. I really would complain about the school.
I hope you get something sorted.

[highlandspringerdog]

I think you're right.
Everyone who has complained has ended up leaving. This is a pattern I am seeing repeated again and again. The LEA must be aware, though they don't seem to give a damn. Ofsted also know - I have spoken to 6 parents who wrote a letter to them - nothing.

[highlandspringerdog]

Does anyone think that from what I have described above, I may be over reacting? One mum I spoke to about the number of people leaving said she thought they were all 'too emotional' about things. I think she is a nutter. I just wonder what anyone else thinks? If those events were happening at your child's school would you too run for the nearest shelter?!

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

That's terrible! I think your next step needs to be your MP, especially as the LEA are crap, they should be intervening.

//www.childrenslegalcentre.com/ these are very helpful if you want some legal advice over this. I'd give them a call and see what they suggest.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

You have to have trust in your child's school, you are entrusting your child to them so you need to know that they are safe and cared for, it's the basis of the relationship that you have with the school. If you don't have this then you don't have peace of mind as you constantly worry about your child, you are better off moving them as this is the case here.
Alot of schools encourage children to sort out any problems themselves and don't like to intervene, even when a child is being bullied. It sounds like this is what's going on here, they should be supervising the children rather then using a part of the playground as a coffee room.
It's a legal requirement to maintain a class register, they are not fulfilling this.

[HumphreyCobbler]

You are not overreacting.

All the things you mention sound truly awful.

I would not leave my child there. I would not work in a school like this either.

[highlandspringerdog]

Thank you for the confirmation. A tiny part of me worries I may be jeapordising their stability because of my neurosis. But a much bigger part of me knows they are not safe there and so I need to take action. Given school starts next week and I have a full time job, it is unlikely I am going to be able to do anything other than send them back there for the first week at least though, while I get everything sorted out.
If only we were millionaires I could give up work and home ed my self!

Another parent I know waited a whole year whilst knowing all of this and more was going on at school, until she got her child into a decent school. I am not sure I can handle a year of anxt all day every day. Also the temptation is to give them a day off whenever my childcare or work patterns allow, which is also really not helpful for them.

And someone mentioned bullying - the bullying in this school is horrifying. I have heard the most shocking of tales.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

Could your nanny not help out? There's alot of resources for home educating online, could she not help out until you get something else sorted?

[highlandspringerdog]

Possibly. I am going to ask. There is also the huge increase in cost in employing her for the whole day instead of just the school run and after school bits, plus fact she looks after a baby during the day. So it is unlikely. anyone know of a fantastic nanny who would fit the bill in the NE london area? I shall have to return to our trusty rip off nanny agency and see what they come up with.

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

Would it be worth considering a school miles and miles away?

It might be easier for you or your nanny to get the children to a school some distance away than to home ed.

When I looked for a school for ds (his first and only to date - no serious issues here thankfully), rather than look only at schools with an x mile radius, I looked at schools that were fairly easy to get to. Because of bus routes and so on, it was actually easier to travel to his school, which was a few miles away, than it was to one half the distance.

Sorry, this probably isn't terribly helpful and I'm not in London - just trying to throw some more ideas into the mix.

[highlandspringerdog]

food for thought there, yes, we are near a good train line, i'll look into that.
thing is - we will eventually get into a local good one, the question is how long is it safe to wait. a term? a year? not a minute more? I am still grappling with this one.

[Miggsie]

I would see if you can contact the parents who have removed their children and write a joint letter to your MP citing the incidents, the Ofsted complaints and lack of follow up. Then send copies of this to the school and head of Ofsted.

[JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar]

Is it possible to make a FOI request for the details of these complaints?

[highlandspringerdog]

Nanny cannot help. Local education authority say they cannot process any new applications for any other schools until the middle of september due to a computer system overhaul. DH wants to sit it out, send them back to the school from hell - as he rightly points out, they have had no major problems themselves there - though he appreciates that this may be only a matter of time, and also the damage that is done in watching the ill treatment of others - and then remove them once we have a place elsewhere.

This does seem on paper like the most sensible option, logistics wise, bearing in mind that we both have to work, the nanny cannot do it, and there is nowhere else for them to go! But I remain anxious. They have been there for some time already and though I have been occassionally alarmed, I have not directly experienced anything like the terrible bullying - by children AND staff - that others have encountered, my sons are well behaved and so we have not endured any of the questionable punishments either. So, maybe just another few weeks there - if that is all it takes - may be tolerable.

I am still not happy. I feel guilty for sending them there.

[willali]

I think you may be slightly over reacting to the supervison in the playground and the bumps and bruises issues - these are fairly typical IME.

However the lack of dealing with complaints etc is a concern (but will not directly affect the children IYSWIM)and should be raised with the Governors. Is there a PTA that can take a delegation to the Governors to raise all these issues?

If your CHILDREN are happy and not begging to leave / getting beaten up etc then I would wait till a place elsewhere is available. As I say the issues with management are not of their concern exactly.

[AMumInScotland]

I think if there are no other school places available straight away, and you don't have other childcare options to allow you to HE, then you just have to accept the situation and send them in for now.

If they have managed there for a year or more already without any major incidents, then I think it's fair to hope that everything will continue to be fine for another term, or however long it takes for you to make other arrangements.

It's normal to feel guilty when a choice you've made for your children turns out not to be that great, but don't beat yourself up over it.

[highlandspringerdog]

I agree, I shall accept it and make the best of it. You are right.

Not sure I am over reacting to the bumps and bruises - I know bumps and bruises are completely normal and I have no problem with that, it is fairly serious injuries,like a head wound requiring stitches (not my child), or a child being found outside the school (aged 5) during the school day and the school having an explanation entirely at odds with that of the adult who found the child, with my kids I have asked for an explanation for what isn't the biggest deal in the world, but, o I don't know - my 4 year old has come home with black eyes 'XXX hit me', head bumps 'XXXX pushed me into the radiator, XXXX tripped me down the stairs' etc,perhaps our worst unexplained (by staff) injury was a nose encrusted with blood 'XXX punched me'and I know rough and tumble is normal, but it is just the frequency of the rough and tumble and the fact the staff don't ever seem to know how it has happened!

Also, I suppose in a way it does not really matter if unsupervised playgrounds are normal - they are still not safe. And in fact, I have had a look at a lot of other schools on this subject and have not found the same lack of supervision. Also I think from the reactions on MN to what I describe, I don't think it is a widespread problem. I could be wrong though.

The lack of dealing with complaints has not effected my kids no, but it has been the reason other families have left - when complaints about bullying / weird punishments are just pushed under the carpet, it means the actual fundamental issues are not being dealt with and so the problems remain very likely to happen again.

I don't know. Thank you all for the replies anyway, they are really helpful and I appreciate them very much. It is helpful to have some sane people to tell me it will be ok! It is hard when you are the Mum and all you want is for your children to be happy and safe, and you cannot even deliver that!

Difficult isn't it, this parenting lark.