Can year 2 pupil go into year 3 for ability?

[icklepicklesmum]

My daughter is currently in a year 1/2 class and has achieved the grade she needs to achieve by the end of year 2 already.

Next year she is going into an all year 2 class as our school does not have a year 2/3 split class.

This means she is going into a class where the remainder of the children are basically anything up to a year behind her.

Is is possible for a year 2 pupil to go into a year 3 class based on ability?

This year the teacher has worked with us to ensure she doesnt get bored which is what happens when the work gets too easy. Each time she has said she is bored or the work is too hard she has made it harder. She has ended up getting better grades than most of the year 2 pupils in the class.

If any teachers can help with this or if any of you have experienced this I would appreciated your help.

I plan on seeing the class teacher to discuss our concerns so it would be good to hear some of your experiences beforehand.

Thanks very much

[mummytime]

Any teacher worth their salt should be well able to differentiate by a year or more. If your daughter is just a year ahead, it really shouldn't cause any problems for the teacher, most normal age group classes have much more than a one year difference in ability and understanding.

What you are describing from the teacher this year is really what I would expect any good teacher to do.

[colditz]

This is quite common and teachers generally deal with it well.

[icklepicklesmum]

We had problems when she was in reception where she was being held back because they said she was so far ahead of the rest of the class and they didnt want her getting any further ahead!... so you can see why we are concerned.

[FranSanDisco]

My ds's teacher has set him work at his level to challenge him. It has worked fine and he loves school, never bored

[icklepicklesmum]

Thats great Fran. My daughter has often become bored but this teacher has worked with us and moved her forward each time which has been great. She has done well this year with the challenge of keeping up with the year 2 children. Its such a shame they dont do a year 2/3 class as this is what she really needs. Going back to a year 2 class with children that didnt get into the year 1/2 class this year is like going backwards. Her year 2 friends that she has been with this year that are not as clever as her are moving upwards and she is effectively moving downwards.
All we want is a good education for her and for her to be happy at school and not bored as is the case this week when she has had a supply teacher.
Glad your son is happy.

[Merrylegs]

But but she can't be finding all the school work too easy can she?
I mean she may be doing Tudors this year. Or Victorians. Does she know absolutely everything there is to know? Lots of extra research to be done for an able child.

How about PE? Best athlete in Year 3?

Art - she could be doing impressionism or pop art or mosaic work. Is she an expert?

The teacher will find her level and let her work at it.

There will be a handful of children just as able as her in her new class - some may be better in terms of organising research say, or more artistic, or more analytical in terms of science. Its not just about what reading book you are on.

Perhaps if she is particularly able in say, maths, she may go up to the next class for some lessons? This is common .
But it is not a good idea to separate her from her peers.

[icklepicklesmum]

By putting her in the class she is going in next year that is seperating her from her peers. There are only 3 of them going into this class.

The majority of her friends who are in the year 1/2 currently are year 2 and going into year 3 so she wouldnt be split from her peers anyway.

I am not saying she is a genius because she is not but her brain needs challenging and putting her into a year 2 class which doesnt have the brightest children in doesnt seem right to me.

At parents evening we were told she would be kept as what they term as a "high flyer" but now we find she is in a year 2 only class with children that are a long way behind what she has been learning in the split year 1/2 class this year.

[domesticsluttery]

This is actually really common.

DS1 has just finished Year 2. He has always been reasonably ahead, and has always had suitable "extended" work provided for him. He is in a small school so the class is mixed Year 1 and 2. Obviously it was easier to give him harder work in Year 1 as he just had whatever Year 2 were doing, but this year he has still been given differentiated work most of the time. For example he is ahead of the rest of the class in reading, so just gets his reading books from the Year 3/4 class and brings them back. He is usually given the same topic as the others, but just expected to write in more depth. In Maths he is given extension work.

DS2 is just finishing Year 1, and I am pretty confident that in the areas where he is ahead of average (for example in reading he is already having to go to the Year 3/4 class to get his books) he will be supported in the same way as his brother was next year.

DD has just started Reception and is in the same situation, she is starting to read and can write quite well where many of her classmates don't know their letters yet. But I know from when the boys were in Reception that the teacher will given her work which is appropriate.

Very rarely do any of them complain that they are bored, despite being ahead of average in at least some areas, so I'm quite happy that their teachers are doing a good job. A child who is properly engaged in a topic shouldn't get bored, as they can always find new areas to explore.

I really wouldn't like to move them away from their friends of the same age, just because they are academically ready to move up a year they certainly aren't socially.

It is also unlikely that they are equal to the year above in everything. DS1 is pretty much top in Year 2 academically, is the only member of the school choir from below Year 3, is the only member of the class to be learning a musical instrument, Is the second youngest member of the football team, is one of the fastest runners, is very good at arts and crafts... so pretty much an all round star (sorry for teh quick boast) but I still wouldn't move him up a year early.

[LIZS]

She may not be the only child and just because she was in a mixed year class this year doesn't mean other children among the Year 1s haven't developed since and now be closer in ability to her. fwiw dd did some year 5 maths curriculum while in year 3 but there were a few others similar and it never became an issue. Wait and see how they sort and differentiate next term. It is unusual to advance a child from his peer (academ,ic age) group and could create social issues, but not unheard of especially in private schools. Remember Reception is a different curriculum and it is probably harder to cater for a wide ability range when the focus is on learning through play and not "learning for learnings sake".

[LIZS]

"academic year age"

[mummytime]

Okay I teach secondary, and in my top set classes there are 3 or 4, max 5 kids who are ahead in terms of the way they think, how much they know. I would expect that my planning stretches them, as well as helping those who are struggling to keep up with the set.

Similarly in other lessons, the "bright" kids will be working with kids from all the sets (e.g. DT), and it doesn't do them any harm. Actually in form time I have had one of the less intelligent pupils come up with comments on refugees that the brightest could learn from.

I really think you should speak to the teacher, but I do think you have a somewhat limited view on how children learn. Just putting a bunch of bright pupils together is not always the best, and even amongst the brightest there are differences.

You daughter should not just be learning facts, but skills that will enable her to live in the 21st century with its rapidly changing world. But do go and talk to the teachers if you are so concerned.

[icklepicklesmum]

You obviously have confidence in the school and that is great. My experience of the school holding her back just because they didnt want her to get any further ahead of the school was not a good one so you can understand why we are concerned. I have requested a meeting with the school anyway but just wanted to hear what others have experienced.

I would move her away from her age group but only because this year she has been with year 2 anyway and has been doing the same work as them so it wouldnt seem any different to her as she has been with them all along anyway.

[icklepicklesmum]

Actually mummytime I am aware of how children learn as my mum is a special needs teacher in a mainstream school. Thanks for your input though, I wanted to hear what others had experienced so I have some ideas to discuss as the meeting.

[Bramshott]

I think in the nicest possible way you need to relax your attitudes about the other children in your DD's year group. Saying things like "children that didnt get into the year 1/2 class this year" and "are not as clever as her" is probably doing both her peers and your DD a disservice.

Children develop at different rates, and you may well find that by the end of Yr 2, others have caught up and overtaken your DD, not because of anything the school has or hasn't done, but just because children don't learn and develop in in linear fashion. Much better to teach your DD that everyone has different but equally important talents and qualities.

Separate the class stuff out of it because it isn't something you can change, instead concentrate on talking to the school about how they will continue to challenge your DD, recognising that this may take different strategies in a pure Yr 2 class, than as a Yr 1 in a mixed Yr 1 / Yr 2 class. There is such a wide range of abilities in any primary school class that all teachers should be used to finding ways to stretch the most able, while helping those who are finding it more tricky.

[AngryPixie]

My dd is in a year 2 class but works with y3 for maths, which is the best of both worlds for us.

[claire70]

The simple answer to your question is : No because the school is not permitted to do this.

My DC's school did place children in classes to suit their ability rather than their age (albeit sadly most were being moved down). Then an Ofsted inspector saw what was happening and overnight 20% of the children had to change class.

[domesticsluttery]

How do you define holding her back?

I'm just having difficulty imagining how you could stop a bright and eager to learn child from progressing?

I don't know how they are taught at your school, but IME children at this age learn an awful lot from each other, and from projects that they take part in, rather than being sat at a desk and taught down to by the teacher. The classroom is an environment for learning, and the learning comes from many different directions.

For example, my DS1 and DS2's class have been doing a project on gardens. Every child within the class, from the least able yr1 pupil to the most ahead Year 2 pupil has developed their learning through the project. For example they have looked up about plants in books and online, used maths to make raised beds and work out how many seeds to sow, learnt science through looking at the plants and their life cycles, written up reports about the garden, made signs for the garden etc etc. Every child has been able to learn at their own level and has developed accordingly, and no child should have been bored.

[icklepicklesmum]

Thanks angrypixie - this is the sort of thing I want to hear about. how others either teach or parents sharing their experiences.

Bramshott thinks I should relax my attitude - I am fully aware that children develop at different levels and that she may well level out at some point but what I want to ensure is the MY child receives a good education. My daughter has friends of all abilities and it doesnt make any difference to me, her or them. We have friends with children with SEN and my mum teaches them.

I dont think I should relax at all - our children get one shot at an education and I will do what I have to to ensure she gets one. We live in a deprived are so there are many children with SEN in the school. A large percentage in fact. I just want to ensure that she also is given the education she needs and I dont think there is anything wrong with that.

I have concerns based on past experiences as from talking with other parents at the school. So many stand in the playground complaining about thigs but never speak with the school about it. Things are never going to change unless you speak with the teachers or headteacher of the school.

Thanks for sharing you experiences. Its helpful to hear what others have experienced.

[claire70]

I know how a school might hold a bright child back!
The teacher simply de-prioritises setting work for that child (so the less able children get seen to first and the more able are set new work if the teacher has time left over to check whether they have finished or not). I've seen this operate in practice first hand.

[icklepicklesmum]

She was being held back by not giving her any harder work than the others and for example with her reading they said she was 6 levels higher than the rest of the class so they didnt want her to progress anything further because she was leaving the others behind!

[claire70]

icklepicklesmum - don't be angry with this suggestion please... but why not do what I do and just teach at home as well?
For example, your DD will probably be learning her times tables now, so hook her up to this website and she will be challenged and enjoy herself for a while.
[http://www.bigbrainz.com/]

[rabbitstew]

I'm not sure a school is never permitted to put a child into a different year, but it most certainly is not and should not be common practice. To be able to do this, I would have thought the school would need to consult with an educational psychologist, first, and jump through a few hoops to prove it was the best way of dealing with the child's abilities and personality.

[icklepicklesmum]

Exactly Claire and this is what I can see happening in this new class. I know which children are going into this class as well.

[LIZS]

I wouldn't go that far, we've had our share of interventions ! We expressed concern in year 3 that dd was in the middle spelling group and foudnit too easy going - she'd get 10/10 without opening the book to learn them. Eventually her teacher tested her randomly and decided she was able to do more, but by then she had to learn over 100 new words to catch up in the top group ! They were put in reading groups at beginning of year 4 - dd reported they were based on mixed ability and felt she was there to help others - at parent's evening we found out they were actually supposed to be ability groups and shortly after that she went up! So they have got it wrong and while it isn't wrong to challenge the rationale, I think moving your dd a year "ahead" is unlikely to be the solution.

[icklepicklesmum]

Thanks for that Claire.I will take a look at the website.

I do teach her at home and so does my mum who is a teacher herself.

The problem I see is her getting bored at school. I know when she is bored because of how she comes out of school. Yesterday she had a supply teacher and the work they were given was the sort of thing given to nursery and reception children. Her brain had not been exercised all day so she came out jumping through hoops. I knew straight away, even before I asked her, that the work she had been given was far too each.

Is it wrong to want a good education for your child?