DS (Year 4) didn't get ANY levels/grades on his report - should I ask?

[GreatTT]

DS is very happy at school. We never get called in and from what I can tell, he is in the top half of the class. His report came out on Friday, and it has been bugging me that unlike lots of posters on here, his report contained no actual facts about his level of achievement. I know Year 4 is not an offical SATs year, but DS did sit some this year - the school were very upfront about it.

Do you think I should ask for the results, I feel I am being a bit 'pushy mum'. However, while his report said lots of nice things, I still have no ideal whether he is above, below or average for his age/the rest of his class, or what he needs to be working on next/to improve/his strengths and weaknesses.

I won't be any doing school pick-ups this week, so can't ask informally - would need to phone/write.

[dorie]

Our school never give individual gradings now. I thought this was the norm for all schools TBH - but I could be wrong.

What happens in our school is we get the report one week, look over it and then parents evening is set up for the following week, where parents go into school to discuss the report and any concerns with the teacher. The teacher will tell you wether your child is top, middle or bottom of his class, and advise on any areas which need to be worked on.

[Ineedsomesleep]

GreatTT our DS is in Y1 and we have the same conundrum.

We had the report last Friday, no Parents Evening set up and he finishes this Friday.

The report only comments on his Numeracy. In all other subjects we've got no idea whether he is above average or below.

It is hard to ask without seeming like a pushy Mum, but I think we are going to ask. However, we will be keen to point out that we have no interest in where he is in relation to the other pupils, we just want to know if he is acheiving the normal levels of a 6 year old.

[GreatTT]

Thanks for your comments. There is no parents evening planned, so no opportunity to ask about levels. I would like to know how DS is in comparison to national levels and within the school - if everyone else is at level x and DS is at level y, then that would be useful information, so I know he is not being left behind, or way ahead.

We got DD's Year 2 results in her report, so I suppose it seems strange that DS has taken tests like she did (and he knew about his tests, DD didn't), yet the school won't tell us how he did.

It seems a bit heavy-handed to have to formally ask for results. Why do you think the school doesn't tell us as a matter of course?

[snorkie]

The levels aren't all that important imo, whether he's above or below average for his age/class isn't all that important either, but you definitely do need to know if he's making good progress or not and what his specific targets are. I can't really see how you can get hold of these without seeming a but pushy however - maybe it's something you could raise with the new teacher at the start of next term more easily?

[GreatTT]

Snorkie - I do disagree with you a bit on this. I do want to know DS's targets, but to me it isn't just a case of whether he is making progress or not. What if he was making progress, but was still a year behind his peers - as a parent, I should know that. It might mean I did things differently at home, gave him more support with homework, tried to extend his activities. It is relevant what others are doing as he is spending his days with his peers, who will start to notice how others are doing in comparison. Exam grades in the future will be looked at in comparison to his peers etc. While I don't need a claass ranking (!), an idea of where he is in relation to others would be helpful so I can see how he is doing.

You are right though, I can't ask without coming across as pushy! Grr!

[snorkie]

The levels are just one, not always very accurate, measure of progress though. The reason I think if a child is making good progress is all you really need to know is that comparisons with others aren't always meaningful as some children learn faster than others naturally and all children have 'learning spurts' at different times too. Not everyone can be above average (by definition), so it doesn't really make sense to feel that if your child is progressing well but still below average you should need to give extra coaching to catch up (unless of course there is a particular learning objective that they need specific help with). You will then just end up with a rather stressed child who is perhaps missing out on some of the other activities that children should be doing.

By the way, if they are making good progress then the chances are they are not substantially behind their peers unless they're unusually slow learners (which you would probably know about already) anyway.

I can see (and have in the past also sucumbed to) the temptation to know results in terms of peers results though, so I do understand your disagreement! It's just with hindsight I think it's rather irrelevent. Public exam grades in the future will be hugely influenced by work ethic during the course itself and a good attitude to learning at that stage will compensate for a fairly wide range of achievement levels at the start of the course as far as I can see.

If the report said lots of 'nice things' then the chances are there's no cause for concern, but I would still try and get some clarification with a teacher as soon as you reasonably can - reports shouldn't be wishy washy but specific even if they don't contain actual grades/rankings with the specific objectives being more important than the grades. Much more use to know your childs target is to become more secure with 3x table and to use more varied adjectives in their writing than that 55% of the class are ahead of him - with the former information you can in the course of every day life make sure those skills are developing, with the latter you might panic & enrol them in kumon which may or may not help at all.

[mungo8]

Hello

I do not think asking for your child's assessment levels are a sign of being a pushy parent just an interested one, as a parent this is the only indication we have regarding our child's progress and to know if they are on track. I put no pressure on my children regarding school and by no means a pushy parent. My children's education is important to me and I want to know how they are doing from one year to the next. Why shouldn't we know? If you want to know just ask, so what if the teacher thinks your a pushy parent (which I am sure she wont) your child will have a different teacher next year anyway. It is nice to know where your child is ending one year and starting another.

[mumtoabeautifulbabyboy]

I am a teacher and at our school (and other I know) it is extremely common for parents to come in and ask about what level their child is working at, how much progress etc. I have no problem with this and view it as normal, good parenting. It isn't at all pushy.
Ask how he is doing compared to the national 'average' e.g 3b at the end of year 4 rather than quizzing the teacher about individual classmates (this has happened to me a few times(!)
Give them a call.

[Ineedsomesleep]

Mumtoa that's good advice. Where should DS be at the end of your 1? If she said to me 3b, I wouldn't have a clue what she meant!

[GreatTT]

Well... I was brave and phoned school this morning. I said it would be helpful to know the results of DS's tests/teachers assessments, and asked if I could be given them. The secretary said no. I asked why and she said it was school policy not to, and they didn't have to by law except in Year 2 and 6. She said that the Head didn't think it necessary for parents to be informed each year, and the report was sufficently detailed. She also said that if there was a problem with DS's pregress, then we would know about it.

I was even braver and then said that I thought that schools HAD to let parents know stuff like this if they asked, and she got all huffy, and said yes, if I wanted to make a formal request they would respond to that. I said wouldn't it just be easier to tell me the results, and she just said te school policy thing again.

Grr - so, I am now uber-pushy mum, who still doesn't know how DS has done, and will have to make a formal request to find out! Why are some schools like this?!

Actually, I blame Mumsnet - it was everyone on here talking about it that made me notice our reports were different...

[janeyjampot]

I've been through the same with DD2, who is just leaving YR6. At the end of YR2 we received her results, which were all 3s. At the end of YR3 I asked for her current scores, and was fobbed off with a woolly statement about "3 is not the same in YR3 as it is in YR2, you know." I took this to mean that standards were higher but she was still making progress.

At the end of YR4 we asked again and got a load of "she's a lovely girl", and no actual results. There was also something along the lines of "It's not all about academic progress, you know." which made me feel I was a monster for implying that academic progress was desirable at school!

Yr5 was disastrous with two teachers, both on long-term sick leave. I asked the supply teacher for DD2's results and she told me that she was working at 3s and they'd be pleased if she left YR6 with 4s! I was horrified because I have another DD in the year above who also came into the Juniors with 3s and left with 5as, which I understand is the expected level of progress. We have put in loads of extra support this year and she is leaving with 5s in Literacy and Science, and a 4 in Maths. I am proud of the progress she's made this year, but I feel really angry that I allowed myself to be fobbed off so many times, and made to feel I was a ridiculously pushy parent, when all the time she wasn't moving ahead with the rest of her class. I think she could have done better in maths if we'd realised there was a problem at an earlier stage.

I would ask, if only to avoid feeling stupid and that you'd let your DC down at a later stage.

[Teacher401]

Actually, I do believe schools have to report Year 4 results to their authority (we do anyway). So you should be able to get hold of them.

[GreatTT]

Thanks for your support. Janey - that sounds a nightmare, and is a good reminder of why it isn't being pushy to ask. I am thinking about phoning and asking to speak to the head, to ask him why I should have to make a formal request for DS's scores, but I am not feeling quite brave enough yet. It feels like I am being confrontational, when actually what I am asking is quite reasonable. I remember from my primary days getting reports with a grade for effort and a number for achievement - why should parents now not need to know this these days?

[werewolf]

Drop the Head a note and ask for the scores.

It doesn't make you pushy, it makes you well-informed. Finding out in Year 6 is too late.

[suitejudyblue]

At my DCs school they also do a voluntary SATs test each year. We aren't given the results in the report but are quite free to ask for them and I do.
I can see that maybe your school doesn't want loads of parents phoning up and pestering teachers about individual children but from the attitude of the secretary it doesn't sound like that happens.
I don't know if they are obliged to tell you, my guess would be that they aren't but it sounds like you are an engaged parent who they have now alienated by there attitude.
I don't think you were wrong or pushy to ask and you are entitled to ask for more info on the school policy in this area but I can see why you might not want to.
Good luck

[pozzling]

I do think you have a right to know roughly how your DS is doing- be aware that as other say, the levels are only a rough indication though. However, I don't think it's at all unreasonable for parents to know whether their children are average, above or below. I have taught SEN children who are a long way below average- making progress, but nowhere near where they 'should be' for their age- and some of the parents have been unaware of this, because previous teachers have talked about progress and targets etc but not levels or expectations. Equally, if a child is achieving at much higher than their peers, I think it's important that the parents know this. I would have no problems talking to parents about levels, but would also emphasise that they're not the be all and end all.

[GreatTT]

Thanks suite and werewolf. I am definitely going to ask.
Pozzling - you are right there. While it is good to know about progress, unless you know from what to what, and where other children are at, it is all meaningless. I have gathered from here about the levels you get from SATs and know they are not the be all and end all, but knowing about where compared to the average DS is is useful to me.

Having said that, if I do get given SATs levels, what is 'average', 'worrying' or 'good' for end of Year 4 - I am not sure they school would tell me that lol! It is a school with high achievers - over 50% (incl DS) got 3's across the board in Year 2, so that may skew things a bit?

[suitejudyblue]

I'm never quite sure about the expected levels but I think that it goes from 2b in yr2 to 4b in yr6 so 6 sublevels in 4 years. Progerss isn't linear and I think that there is often a dip in year 3.
I know that doesn't really answer your question, hopefully a teacher will be able to help.