Advice please - attempting to set up a preschool...

[Burstingattheseams]

Hi

does anyone have any advice for us please?

Our current preschool is church owned and for various reasons the church have decided that they wish to dissolve the pre school. The current committee are keen to adopt the PLA constitution and keep the pre sschool running.

We have a meeting set up with our district co-ordinator but I was wondering whether there are any pitfalls etc that you can warn us about before we make the leap into the unknown.....

THank you

[MegGriffin]

Hello Burstingattheseems. I think it would be a good idea to look at the finances of the pre-school and make sure you are ok. Do you have many children on roll etc and are there funds in the bank? As a service to the community it is a wonderful idea to keep the pre-school going but as a business unless you are commited to lots of fund raising and charging the correct fees it can be hard to break even.

[Mayron]

I'm chairperson of our pre school and we work to the PLA constitution. I think MegGriffin is right about looking into numbers on roll and current finances - we only just break even and rely heavily on fundraising to keep us afloat. If you've got committed staff (ours are fantastic and don't get paid a great deal) and a committee willing to fundraise and support the pre school you should be ok.

[Burstingattheseams]

Thank you MegGriffin and Mayron - you have both identified my biggest concern. I think I have a crash course in accounts coming up!

It is a well supported pre school(at present) but in my experience so much is dependant on birth rates each year (does anyone know how we can find out birth rates in specific areas???) and also the willingness of parents to contribute to fundraising varies so much from year to year.

Is it possible for a pre school to charge top up fee's per session - or are there better ways to increase the takings? we are only registered for 26 and do not have an outdoor area so all day sessions are not really an option.

What is a realistic yearly target for a preschool to fundraise?

Sorry so many questions....

[CarGirl]

I wouldn't recommend adopting the PLA constitution, there is a very new one which gives the committee members limited liability.

The grant vouchers run for 38 weeks per year, you can chrage for services above the 2.5 hours so you can run for 2hrs40 or more and then charge, a lunch club can be a good idea.

In Sept 2010 then they will be funding for 3 hours so you could only charge if you opened for more than 3 hours.

Potentially you can offer 2 sessions per day with a staff break in between. Do you have a waiting list, what local competiton do you have, what would you get charged for hall use etc? What is the funding you get per session (it varies in different LEAs) what are your staff ratios - staffing is the biggest cost.

What are you offering at the moment?

[littlerach]

You could speak ot the early years team at your council as they will be able ot tell you if there is sufficient childcare in your area.
If there isn't, and you run the preschool, you may be entitled to some funding for staffing costs. We missed out on this unfortunately.
You may also find there are some courses you can attend to advise you on accounts, business management etc.

I was chair for 2 yrs, and fundraisre for 2 befor ethta. I am now employed by the preschool to do their admin etc. It is a huge task.

[CarGirl]

There are LOADS of grants out there to claim if you are a charity at the moment but you cannot claim retrospectively. I agree the early years time at your council should be able to help you.

[Burstingattheseams]

We offer 5 morning sessions a week of 2.5hr plus 2 lunch clubs (which sometimes) break even. (we charge £3.50 for lunch clubs and our grant for a session is £8.50)

We only offer places for 3-5year olds...suppose we could offer places to 2.5yr olds?

We have a leader (EYPS) deputy (level 4) 2 other qualified staff and one unqualified. Each session runs with 20-24 children at present with four staff plus a parent helper.

We haven't negoiated a price for the hall yet but at present we get charged £11 per session

I will look into the limited liabiility company route - can you still be a charity under this?

[CarGirl]

yes it is a very new thing that is either just out or about to come out, our early years committee training person told us about it.

I would suggest increasing to 2hrs45 and charging for each session, termly in advance - or perhaps half termly to begin with. Do most children come for 5 sessions or what?

The staff ratio is 1 to 4 for under 3 year olds.

Perhaps your lunch club is too expensive? Run it once per week and have it full? Send around a survey to see why people do/do not use it.

[CarGirl]

OUr early years also told us about a sustainability grant so ask about that too

[littlerach]

WE get charged a similar amount.
Our lunch club is £3 for 45 mins.
WE charge half termly in advance.

We now run mixed age sessions, so include 2 year olds. It is trickier, but the children seem to love it, and it has reduced our outgoings as we don't have ot factor in places for them when they turn 3.

WE looked into the incorportaed route, but the new chair chose not to do it. We have indemnity insurance which covers the committee.

In theory, you could reduce your staff as 24 children legally need 3 members of staff. But it is obvioulsy great if you can maintain higher than ratio.

[CarGirl]

I think it's impossible to keywork the children on minimum staffing and it also makes it very difficult if someone is off sick. Depends how good your parents on the rota are - in some ways it's easier to ditch the volunteers and get them to pay instead! How about offering yourselve as a placement for childcare students. We've really benefitted from that as they are usually great or okay rather than as dire as some of the parents.

[littlerach]

Yes, we had a student last year who was wonderful.

And we have one now who will hopefully get a job with us when she finishes.

[CarGirl]

Surely most parents would like you to be open for 38 weeks, I thought you had to be open 32 to get the funding? It may make you more popular.

We're also considering giving a 4% discount to those who are with us 4 sessions per week and 8% for 5 sessions as it's easier for the staff to have fewer children for more sessions as again it's less keyworking.

[DorisIsAPinkDragon]

Acounts accounts accounts, agree with the limited liablity thing, it is new for charities.

I was on the preschool commitee and olny found out later that we were liable for any debts incurred, at the point we were looking at a £10,000 hole in the budget.

Ensure that the contingency fund you have covers all staff redundancies and is REGULARLY updated to account for increased time accrued.

Be prepared to spend lots of time doing staff management type stuff, annual reviews, contract, staffing rotas (unless you plan to have a manager)when personally I would have been much happier concentrating on the fund raising, of which there will be plenty!

Good luck

[CarGirl]

Yes the redundancy contingency fund ours is massive because we have a couple of staff who have been with us for a long time and they are mature ladies!

Find out who your competitors are, what services they offer, how much they charge, whether they are full.

If you don't have a waiting list look at going to 16 children per session and make someone redundant, either that or get yourselves full.

[Mayron]

Could someone fill me in a bit on the PLA constitution and limited liability. We agreed to adopt the new version (2008) at our last committee meeting and now I'm worrying a bit - what exactly does it mean?

[Mayron]

Could someone fill me in a bit on the PLA constitution and limited liability. We agreed to adopt the new version (2008) at our last committee meeting and now I'm worrying a bit - what exactly does it mean?

[CarGirl]

Ha

The committee members are liable for the costs if it closes and owes money. As a charity you legally need to have enough money to pay your staff the legal redundancy amount which can be £000's also the PLA one says you have to sell everything off and give the money to PLA.

The treasurer, chair & secretary cannot step down until someone else steps up, you can't convert the pre-school into a business you have to wind it up. Bit of a nightmare all around tbh.

Really not suitable for us as we own our own building!

[Mayron]

Thanks CaGirl. That's kind of what I thought. Just read the PLA constitution again and don't quite like the idea of giving all our money to the PLA if we close -would prefer the staff and long standing committee members to benefit.

We currently operate from a community centre but have been offered funding from our local Children's Services to build a new, purpose built pre school attached to a local school nursery - all to do with the new child care arrangements for Sept 2010.

Think we need to discuss the constitution further at our next committee meeting. I've only been Chair for a year - and the amount of work involved has been crazy! Just keep telling myself it's all for a good cause!

[CarGirl]

Ah but as far as I know you can only change your constitution to one that the PLA approve

[Racingsnake]

Quite interested as friends and I have vaguely thought we would like to start something that we would like for our 3-year olds. Something like a forest nursery. But am total amateur, hence stu[id question - what is the PLA?

[Mayron]

It's the Pre-School Learning Alliance - website address is - www.pre-school.org.uk. They are a charity organisation who provide support on all sorts of issues for early years settings.

[Burstingattheseams]

So much to think about - thank you!

early years advisor first I think......