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Just for reference......

(49 Posts)
AnotherHelen Sat 11-Jun-05 21:58:57

I kind of get the impression that as a whole most ladies would do anything to avoid a c-section, i know with your first its preferable to have the planned natural birth you want, but with subsequant babies, even when some mums have already had a c-section would still do ANYTHING to avoid another - maybe im being an airhead but i was just wandering why do women fear/hate them so much, i have never actually given birth vaginally (almost did) but have had 2 sections and have another planned in september so im very curious as to what the deal is - im considering vbac, and need some help with decisions! xxx

velcrobott Sat 11-Jun-05 22:09:52

I would never consider a section for mebecause a caesarian is surgery and is not giving birth.
I have had 2 vaginal births and the sense of achievment was just unbelievable (the coming out of a small body after hours of hard work). Of course I can't compare it to a caesarian as I have never had one.
Not meaning to be controversial but answering the question.

Gomez Sat 11-Jun-05 22:14:58

Perhaps not meaning to be controvesial Velcrobott but you certainly are. And just made me feel very .!

Anotherhelen - I don't hate/fear sections at all so can't help you there. As to vbac, it would really depend on why you had your sections before but really you can only try with number 3 I think if that is what you want. Good Luck

nutcracker Sat 11-Jun-05 22:16:15

Me too Gomez

WigWamBam Sat 11-Jun-05 22:27:11

"A Caesarean is surgery and not giving birth".

That's an awful lot of people you will have made feel very inadequate, velcrobott. Birth is birth, however you look at it - and after 24 hours, I'd been through everything else and consider I am entitled to say that I gave birth to my dd.

Helen, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, if you want to try for a vbac then you should give it a try. Good luck in whatever you decide.

velcrobott Sat 11-Jun-05 22:30:13

I answered why I disliked a section.
If I had a medical reason to have a caesarian than I would but if there are no reason than for me, I would prefer to do it vaginally I feel caesarians are (mostly) reserved to save the baby or mother's health or life and of course this can include psychological trauma.

WigWamBam Sat 11-Jun-05 22:34:24

I would have preferred to do it vaginally too; the fact that I needed surgery to save the life of my baby doesn't mean I didn't give birth. That's what I found upsetting, not the fact that you prefer vaginal birth over sections.

Gomez Sat 11-Jun-05 22:36:40

Agreed WWB. We all have preference velcrobott, fair enough but to be appear so disparaging of those have have had c-sections is not really on I am afraid.

LGJ Sat 11-Jun-05 22:38:04


Between you and and your nonsense on giving birth and LonleyMum stating that only children and two parents do not a family make,

This forum is starting to make me feel like a freak

beckymumof3 Sat 11-Jun-05 22:38:25

AnotherHelen I posted this link on another thread and thought maybe it would have info to help you with your decision: - it has info on vbac too.

BTW however your baby arrives it is 'born' so you too have 'given birth' IMHO.

Ladymuck Sat 11-Jun-05 22:39:46

But whilst it might have been phrased differently I think that Velcrobott's post answers Helen's question: lots of women view a vaginal delivery as a personal achievement that they want to experience, and can be under enourmous pressure to do so. Many women experience a sense of failure if they do have to go for a c/s or other intervention (eg high forceps). Of course a safe delivery for mum and baby is the objective, but within different social circles there are different expectations as to what is "best"

Statistically a c/s is more risky for a woman than a vaginal birth, though again that is statistical and doesn't necessarily give you a good idea of risks for an individual woman. Have you spoken to your consultant yet?

And without putting words in Velcrobott's mouth, there will be certain circumstances in which even the most ardent supporter of natural birth may have to consider a c/section - to go against midwife and consultant advice to save the life of your baby would be far more tragic than missing out on the sense of schievement of a natural birth.

jampots Sat 11-Jun-05 22:40:02

me three!!

i would have loved to have given birth vaginally but after 3 days it just wasnt happening. With my ds the Consultant wouldnt let me as he was bigger than dd and would likely end in a similar situation to her birth.

I think unless you've had a c/s you cant imagine how you would feel like afterwards especially if you did want a v delivery.

I could never imagine what its like to have a miscarriage as Ive never had one!

beckymumof3 Sat 11-Jun-05 22:40:29

"and LonleyMum stating that only children and two parents do not a family make"

I don't get this - does it mean that you aren't a family unless there are 2 parents?? That's absolute b*ocks.

jampots Sat 11-Jun-05 22:41:34

i think its more a case of "more than 1 child" becks

beckymumof3 Sat 11-Jun-05 22:42:39

Then, yes it is crap! I certainly felt like a 'family' when it was just me and DD1. What rubbish.

beckymumof3 Sat 11-Jun-05 22:44:46

There should be a campaign to stop calling caesareans 'sections' and start calling them 'births'. What the hell does 'section' mean anyway?

Gomez Sat 11-Jun-05 22:47:04

The phrase I have a real problem with is the 'sense of achievment of a natural birth' and of course have a baby by c-section is no achievment at all now!

We all just feel flat and failures because we have not managed utopia!

Funnily enough I was quite uplifted after both my c-sections - do you think maybe because I had just had a baby perhaps?

kid Sat 11-Jun-05 22:52:55

I've had 2 sections, the 1st was an emergency and the 2nd was elective. I certainly don't feel that I didn't 'give birth'. I think that should have been phrased a bit better than it was velcrobott.

Maybe I'm a minority, but I actually wanted a section both times. I did listen to my Dr and MW. They recommended a natural delivery. I went along with it, but it ended in an emergency section after 22 hours labour. 2nd time round, I was insistent on a section which they agreed to at 36 weeks. The reason they decided on a section was because the first labour was brow presentation so the 2nd most likely would be too.

batters Sat 11-Jun-05 23:10:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ladymuck Sat 11-Jun-05 23:16:00

In fairness to Velcrobott she did add to her first post at 10:30!

But it is a great illustration of the pressure that some women feel - anything else simply wouldn't be the same achievement for them. This can be true for women who have had c/sections - regardless of their relief of the safe delivery of their child, they still have a deep-seated desire to have a vaginal delivery. There's nothing wrong with wanting a VBAC, but you should take account of the risks of your personal situation (which of course varies between women).

WigWamBam Sat 11-Jun-05 23:17:03

My daughter is my achievement, not the method by which she was delivered.

Caribbeanqueen Sat 11-Jun-05 23:19:46

I had a c section. I gave birth by c-section. It wasn't planned, it just turned out that way.

But I also felt a huge sense of achievement, which was just unbelievable, as you describe. And it was after hours of hard work.

I most definitely did achieve something, I *gave birth* to my dd, and it was the proudest moment imaginable.

So please, no more of this nonsense.

Ladymuck Sat 11-Jun-05 23:22:26

Helen, I don't have links to hand, but it is worth doing some research via Google or something on the specific risks invloved in VBAC (which amongst other things will depend on the reasons for your previous c/s). Generally a successful VBAC rate of about 70% is quoted (so 30% end in another c/s), but that statistic varies enormously depending on whether you went into labour previously, and also by how much you were dilated. So VBAC for electives due to breach presentation tend to be very successful, but if you got to 8cm or more dilation in a previous labour and then needed a c/s, then the VBAC rate drops to under 50% from memory.

LGJ Sat 11-Jun-05 23:22:53

This can be true for women who have had c/sections - regardless of their relief of the safe delivery of their child, they still have a deep-seated desire to have a vaginal delivery

Stuff and nonsense.

Get him out and get him out in one piece,

Ladymuck Sat 11-Jun-05 23:31:06

A close friend of mine had sever PND after the c/s of her first child. She was absolutely devastated that she didn't have a vaginal birth. She continued to be devastated as she firstly failed to conceive again (first child born after 3 years of fertility treatment) and then miscarried. Over 4 yeasr later she had a vaginal delivery of her second child, and she is a different person as a result - no hint of PND this time round.

She is however unbearably smug about having given birth "both ways" .

I appreciate that you are not planning future births, but please accept that there will still be some women who have had c/s but would still love a vaginal delivery.

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