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Successful late ECVs and/or breech babies that turned themselves late on?

(27 Posts)
Annie75 Tue 31-Jul-07 19:47:05

God, am boring myself silly now over all this, but could use a bit of hope after shelving my plans for a home birth and the best scenario is now looking like a medicalised hospital birth

So, I've had one ECV last week and am facing another this week (at 39 weeks). Has anyone had one this late and did it work? Or, anyone had a breech that turned as late as this? Would really appreciate hearing any that did...

lulumama Tue 31-Jul-07 19:48:42

have you tried moxibustion and pulsatilla?


will hospital not allow a vaginal breech?

Wilkie Tue 31-Jul-07 19:51:03

Hmmm, Annie - I know VinoRouge on our thread had an ECV but not sure what date. Will link to this and hope she sees it.

x

notsogummyanymore Tue 31-Jul-07 19:51:07

I know it's besides the point, but, are you a midwife lulumama? Just wondered because you are v knowledgable and for future reference ( hopefully!)

lulumama Tue 31-Jul-07 19:52:54

no, i'm not, but i hope to be one day ! i am a doula...and have been learning about birth since i was pregnant with my DD , who is now 2, and was planning a VBAC..and i;ve never stopped learning DH tells me i am obsessed!

notsogummyanymore Tue 31-Jul-07 19:54:20

Great, hope you get there!

BetsyBoop Tue 31-Jul-07 19:56:55

had ECV at 37 weeks exactly, it worked but baby turned breech again 2 days later....

baby turned head down under her own steam at 38+5 & was born at 39+4 weighing 8lb 8.5oz, so they can & do turn late

this was my first btw

notsogummyanymore Tue 31-Jul-07 19:57:00

Sorry annie, back to you...

Annie75 Tue 31-Jul-07 20:10:11

Thanks, Betsy - mine is 38 + 5 exactly today. Oh, it's my first too.

Lulumama - yes, have tried everything sadly - moxi, pulsatilla, reflexology, swimming, positioning, positive thinking, an uncomfortable ECV, frozen peas on the bump (which did make it wiggle about lots!) and yoga. Pah. The baby is obviously pretty comfy where it is, sadly. I didn't start a lot of these until I was about 35 weeks, which may well have been too late, as everyone told me not to worry and that the baby would probably turn. Statistically, they were right.

Hospital will allow a vaginal delivery, but they have a particular 'package' regarding breech deliveries which usually involves an epidural to help stop me pushing before being dilated, stirrups and a preventative episiotomy. All things I was so keen to avoid. I still can, but I have to actively opt out of them and it's been made clear to me that there are risks involved if I do. I know it's daft to feel so disappointed, but I had a clear vision of what I wanted and have done lots of reading around it and know that if I could afford and find a good independent midwife, I'd stand a chance of getting the birth experience I want. I'm prepared to accept a c-section should labour not progress as that's the current wisdom, but I'm worried that because I don't like hospitals at the best of times, I won't progress with a scapel-wielding ob hanging around me.

Sorry, long whinge - been at the hospital today to discuss my options and it's a bit in the forefront of my mind

KTeePee Tue 31-Jul-07 20:27:43

I had a successful ECV fairly late on (37/38 weeks I think) but it was my third baby. Luckily he stayed put after that! I was given to understand that an ECV is more likely to be successful with 2nd or 3rd pregnancies so that's probably not much help for you.

I personally wouldn't have been tempted to try a vaginal birth if ds2 had stayed breech -too much of a wimp!- so I was really pleased the ECV worked - I would have found it really hard to manage after a c-section with two older children needing to be driven to school/nursery and no family around.

Fingers crossed it all works out for you too....

lulumama Tue 31-Jul-07 20:29:12

long shot, but you could try emailing mary cronk, she is an expert in vaginal breech birth.....you can refuse the stirrups, epi and being cut, but clearly hospital have to point out the risks,.it is whether they are presenting the facts to you in such a way that they are making it impossible for you to make an informed decision

lulumama Tue 31-Jul-07 20:29:57

http://www.marycronkmidwiferyservices.co.uk/

and try getting in touch with AIMS too

lulumama Tue 31-Jul-07 20:30:15

http://www.aims.org.uk/

Slacker Tue 31-Jul-07 20:31:22

You don't have to consent to any of those things though. There are 'risks involved' if you do consent to stirrups, epidural etc.

You can birth in hospital on your terms - say that you don't want any doctors in the room unless there's an emergency, and that any midwives involved are not permitted to touch you and interfere with the birth, as long as it appears to be going smoothly. Print off Mary Cronk's breech guidelines and tell the midwife to read them!

That was pretty much my hospital birth plan if my last baby had still been breech when I went into labour, luckily she'd turned by then (after 40 weeks though) so I stayed home. I think as a first timer yours is more likely to stay breech though, as your stomach muscles won't be as loose as mine!

Hope it does turn for you, but if it doesn't I hope you have an easy birth. You still have time to find a doula to support you in hospital, could be invaluable.

Slacker Tue 31-Jul-07 20:32:25

oops cross posted re Mary Cronk!

VinoRouge Tue 31-Jul-07 20:40:00

Annie - itwas me who Wilkie referred to earlier. I had an ECV at 37+5 and she turned like a dream and stayed put. I was offered ECV, planned section or vaginal birth at the LGI (Leeds).

Annie75 Tue 31-Jul-07 20:43:30

Thanks, both. Slacker - good to know yours still turned late. That's been my reasoning too - no point in an elective c-section when the baby could still turn.

Thanks for the advice and I have been in touch with Mary and have been using her papers as the basis for my reasoning. She too, said that I could labour on my terms. The thing that's freaked me out a bit today is that it was pointed out that if I labour on all fours (which is my vastly preferred option) then they wouldn't be able to use forceps to emergency lever the baby's head out should it get stuck at the pushing stage, and then the only option is to push which carries a risk to the baby. It sounded as though they can't figure out how to use emergency forceps when you're on all-fours. My DH is now concerned that I'd attempt a natural delivery only to get the baby's head stuck and risk brain damage etc. Which leaves me feeling cold and responsible for making The Right Choice...

I should say that the hospital are being supportive in that they've been happy to chat to me and talk through my options - but it seems that the flawed results of the Term Breech Trial are still very much dictating breech delivery methods I guess, at the end of the day, they still consider breech births to be riskier.

Thanks for listening to me ramble - I feel less weighed down for the blurting

Annie75 Tue 31-Jul-07 20:45:10

Oh - that's good to know, Vino and thanks for letting me know. Kinda uncomfortable, isn't it? But glad yours turned fairly late on - let's hope mine is more cooperative on Thurs!

Slacker Tue 31-Jul-07 20:59:47

It sounds like you're doing all the right things Annie - you're a hell of a lot better informed than I was before I had my first baby!

I would stick with the all fours plan - in a total emergency you could be flipped over onto your back, the Gaskin manoeuvre in reverse! But the chances of needing forceps are much lower if you're not on your back with an epidural in the first place, as you know.

lizziemun Tue 31-Jul-07 21:00:57

Can i ask a silly question:- Are some breech positions easier/more successfull to turn then others.

I ask because dd was breech but i wasn't sent for a scan and she turned by herself. This time babies is breech again, and i have to have to have a scan on friday (36 weeks), but where dd was laying accross, this one is head up under my ribs feet down iykwim.

lulumama Tue 31-Jul-07 21:06:09

hey slacker.. are you ina may;s second biggest fan ? me being the first biggest!>

sounds like you are doing all the right things annie

Annie75 Tue 31-Jul-07 21:12:15

Hiya Lizzie. Yep, there are several breech positions: complete breech (feet tucked in next to bum, with knees and arms close to body), frank/extended breech (bum down, legs extended next to ears) and footling breech (bum down, one foot dangling below bum). I think the footling breech is meant to be the one hardest to turn because it's not a neat 'bundle' if you see what I mean. Your first sounded as though it was in a transverse (horizontal) position, which meant it was halfway there anyway.

Ask if this one is a footling when they scan you. Are you booked in for an ECV?

Annie75 Tue 31-Jul-07 21:31:49

I love Ina May too - isn't she inspirational? (she said, gushingly) I'd love to have someone as intuitive, informed and nuturing as that. Reckon her books are the best books I've read through my pregnancy. They really make you believe you can do it

lizziemun Tue 31-Jul-07 21:36:16

Annie75

Sorry disappeared to get some ice cream (baby needed it ). I don't know yet about ECV until they see what position the baby in on friday.

I would say from where i feel pressure i would say the baby is not a neat bundle, as it feels like it's doing star jumps.

RedFraggle Wed 01-Aug-07 11:02:27

I had an ECV at 39 weeks and it did work. But.. I found it unbelievably painful and ended up with a crash section anyway. If you've already had one and found it ok though it is probably worth having another go if you really want a natural delivery.

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