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SEETHING rage and sadness. Advice, criticism, support or more rage encouraged!

(24 Posts)
katebakes Wed 16-Oct-13 16:02:47

DH is American and I am English. We met at university, dated and then I found out I was pregnant in our last year.

I went to America in June 2013 to meet his family and we decided to get married. It was something we would have done in the future but it was a slightly rushed last minute dexcision due to expanding tummy and the fact that he wanted me to be his wife when DS1 was born.

I then flew back home because I was worried about DS1 etc. The plan was always to have the baby in England and for me to stay with my parents for a while until he finds a job in the USA, then apply for visas etc and for me to eventually live and settle there.

He was looking for jobs in the US, applying to things, studying for extra exams etc and was going to come back here two weeks ago and stay until the baby was born and for Christmas. Then go back.

He had no intention of overstaying but apparently according to our cunting government he's at risk of doing so. WHY?! Why would he do this? He's well off and educated what the hell would be the point of him staying in the UK as an illegal immigrant. WHY?!

I am heartbroken. He was actually turned away at the border, not granted temporary leave and detained in a detention centre overnight! Despite the border agent telling me that she had no doubt that our relationship was genuine and that he was telling the truth, but the decision had already been made.

He's a tall, blonde, blue eyed Californian from a large affluent catholic family. He's never broken the law, he wants to work in finance and has done nothing in this country but contribute! He is able and willing to financially support his stay, has adequate insurance etc.

I am incensed. I live with my parents in a lovely part of London, we are law obiding, good people. it it seems that immigration in this country is warped as is David Cameron's so called morality and respect for family life and marriage. We had been told that had we not been married and I was just his girlfriend he'd have been allowed entry. Or had he been fleeing a third word country and seeking asylum and benefits he'd have been allowed entry. But because he wanted to do the right thing and be here for the birth of his child and emotionally support his wife during labour he's likely to overstay. Yeah because that's why his parents spent a hundred grand to educate him so he could work illegally as a bartender....makes no sense really.

I'm not 35+3 days pregnant and feeling rather sad.

pootlebug Wed 16-Oct-13 16:06:24

I get why you are upset. I get that you want your husband to be there for your child's birth.

But I am a bit confused at some of the things in your OP.....should tall blonde people be treated differently to people of other colours and ethnicities? Or people who live in a lovely part of London treated differently to those who live in a more dodgy part?

Julietee Wed 16-Oct-13 16:21:28

Aww, you poor thing, that must be devastating. I'd be utterly seething.

Guitargirl Wed 16-Oct-13 16:29:54

I understand that you are upset but parts of your OP are extremely offensive.

katebakes Wed 16-Oct-13 16:35:04

No not at all, I'm not tall or blonde! My grand parents are immigrants. They worked hard and flourished. My parents and I are proud to be British citizens. I am a loyal, law obiding citizen and I expected some level of reciprocity.

I just wanted to highlight our backgrounds. I stated that I live in a lovely part of London to demonstrate that my family and I have always contributed to this country, that my DH is not at risk of costing the taxpayer anything. That he can support himself whilst here.

This is a requirement by the UK border agency, the border agent told me that he must demonstrate that he or I have plenty of money...her words not mine!

LabradorMama Wed 16-Oct-13 16:39:45

I'm incensed on your behalf. I really hope that something can be done to allow him to stay - are you looking into what that might be?

Applepiesky Wed 16-Oct-13 16:40:29

I don't find your post offensive at all. I feel for you... sad

SadPander Wed 16-Oct-13 16:42:59

I don't think that living in a lovely part of London demonstrates anything to be honest, no more than living in a rough part would. But that aside I can totally understand why you are fuming and its really sad if your DH wont be allowed to be there for your babies birth. Can he appeal the decision?

katebakes Wed 16-Oct-13 16:54:07

I really, really didn't mean to offend anyone!

He's appealing now and hopefully he'll get here soon. Fingers crossed.

This is a sensitive issue and I was tempted to delete the post because I don't want to argue with people. The UK asked for all sorts of information about the people he is staying with - we had to give them so much evidence and it's sad that they judge you based on your financial situation. My mother said 'we'll what does that mean? If you're poor you can't have visitors?'

I know that sky news are doing their whole immigartion week and I've definitely changed my views since this has happened. The detention centres are bloody awful and no one should have to go there sad

BummyMummy77 Wed 16-Oct-13 17:03:46

Oh sweetheart I'm sorry.

I'm British and dh is an American too but we live in the States. I REALLY wanted to have the baby in the UK (having to have a home birth in the States instead as I had no insurance and can't afford £20,000-£50,000 hospital bill plus they US maternity system is the worst in the developed world) but was too scared that exactly what's happened to you would happen.

My dh always travels to the UK with a whole folder of supporting evidence even when we visit for a couple of weeks. We take the deeds to our houses, cars, tax records to show how much he gets paid, everything. Even then we sometimes get grief.

It's fucking SHIT the way honest, law abiding people (we spent $1000's on lawyers getting my green card because we wanted to do it a perfectly legal and unquestionable process) get shafted by our government and border controls.

I'm SURE his appeal will be favourable but I would speak to an immigration lawyer to see if there's anything you should/could do to help even more.

If you want to email me send me a message and I'll give you my email.


BummyMummy77 Wed 16-Oct-13 17:05:16

ps. I don't think Kate Bakes is a neo nazi, everyone should chill the hell out.

Sunnysummer Wed 16-Oct-13 17:11:21

We also went through a hellish time trying to get all paperwork done, it must be unbelievably stressful to be going through all this in the third trimester, and I really hope that your family are able to be a great support and that your husband can make it.

That said, the paperwork is frustrating but important - and from the government's perspective your husband has studied but never been employed in the UK, got his girlfriend pregnant, went overseas and had a rushed wedding and now wants to come back with the rights of a resident, despite having never filed the appropriate paperwork in the 20-30 weeks that he and his new wife presumably knew that they were pregnant. If you swap the tall blonde American for a different nationality or race, you can see how the Daily Mail might have a field day if they just let people in with these circumstances.

And speaking of which - the tall blond thing very nearly made me write a (much) ruder response. Should a short black American have met with a different response? A Pakistani of middling height? I would never wish for anyone to have their husband miss the birth of their child just to learn a lesson about white privilege, but seeing as you are in this position anyway, it may be worth thinking about. Sometimes it takes experiences like this for those of us who are fortunate to understand what it can be like when you're on the outside looking in, as you noted with detention seekers.

Really do hope he can make it

katebakes Wed 16-Oct-13 17:18:15

Thank you for your reply bummymummy smile

You are completely spot on.

We really should have been prepared and I understand that more now. Because he'd been a student and not been hassled before and because he's just naive and young we both assumed it would be fine. DH is like a character from a 1950s movie, he's so honest that he doesn't understand why people don't just take

Medical care in the USA is scary expensive. Their maternity care leaves a little to be desired... MIL has had five children and five epidurals...she thinks I'm insane for even considering a natural birth. I'm really, really happy with the NHS hospital I'm at, bupa didn't cover maternity and I can't afford to spend between £15,000 - £25,000 to pop him out privately hahahah.

katebakes Wed 16-Oct-13 17:30:42

sunnysummer He doesn't want the rights of a resident at all, that was the point. He just wanted to visit and was then going back. US nationals are allowed to stay in the UK for 180 out of 365 days without filing any paper work. He wanted to stay for 6 weeks and in that time would only have the rights of any other US national travelling in England.

The fact that we're legally married gives us no legal standing. We got married prior to the baby being born because it meant something to us, not because it helps him stay here - which he never wanted to do.

AhoyAhoy Wed 16-Oct-13 17:31:34

Really sorry to hear about your situation. We went through the whole immigration thing too, it was so stressful. We found out that about a year later, they changed some of the qualifying criteria, so there is no way we would have been successful had we applied a year later. A scary thought.

I can't imagine how you must be feeling in your third trimester. I remember thinking at the time how unfair it was that we had to prove we loved each other, and pay for the right to be able to have a life together, and for my husband to be able to work and contribute to the country.

Hang in there, I'm sure the appeal will be a success- I can see how it must be worrying, but really, you have no choice but to stay positive and hope that he will get it sorted before the baby arrives.

Good luck.

BummyMummy77 Wed 16-Oct-13 17:36:57

It's easy to say you should have been more prepared but my dh would have done the same. It's only because I've friends who've ended up in similar situations that I was a bit wiser to it and so insistent he research it and tread carefully he's even been allowed in to visit as much as he has.

You'll also find after a while that the more entries and exits he's had, the more border control relax. Dh had a harder time at first but then after he'd done 5+trips they chilled out a little bit. That's not to say you won't get some little Hilter in a bad mood or on a power trip that can and will make life difficult.

US maternity care is shocking. The highest infant and mother mortality rate in the Western world and worse than a lot of 3rd world countries. It's 100% based on money therefore interventions. Unnecessary c sections are now at over 60% of all births and over 90% of women have epidurals and hardcore narcotics. Not to mention the shit they try to insist on you having during pregnancy. I've had two pap smears (ridiculous and I should have refused) one at 8 weeks and one at 12 which I think is just wrong and countless internals and pelvic exams while I was still in hospital care. (Another reason for me changing to a home birth).

MY midwives now are amazing and hoping I don't have any complications I feel that the care I'm getting now couldn't be better. Two midwives I see every week and tell me everything. They've taught dh how to feel the baby's position, give me informed choices on stuff like hep b injection at birth, vit k, eye ointment etc and are generally really, honestly excited about it all.

Again, I really would speak to a lawyer though. A couple hundred pounds to just ease the appeal may be well spent as if he loses it he can't appeal again. sad

BummyMummy77 Wed 16-Oct-13 17:38:37

We even carried printed facebook threads talking about our weddings/ plans for getting back to the US getting jobs etc lol. Usually when you start waving folders of stuff at them they get bored and calm down a bit. :D

katebakes Wed 16-Oct-13 17:51:44

bummymummy ahoy

I worded it a wrongly. Because he was simply refused entry we're not appealing the decision per se but just applying for a type of visitor visa. Had he been more organised at the border and already had documents etc he would have legally been able to visit for six weeks with no visa and not having filed any paperwork. (You know this I'm sure).

He did speak to an immigration lawyer - who advised him on the next steps.

He's sending everything off today so fingers crossed he will be given a visa and can visit. If this is rejected we can either appeal or start the motions for me to apply for a visa/green card and move to the USA.

Again I just wanted to clarify that this whole ordeal was about him visiting, not living here permanently. He just wanted to visit for six weeks...

xxleannejxx Wed 16-Oct-13 18:12:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xxleannejxx Wed 16-Oct-13 18:13:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BummyMummy77 Wed 16-Oct-13 18:30:07

Ah I see. That sucks he has to get a visa! Legally he should be allowed on an esta. You think getting married will help matters but I found it makes things 100 times worse!

I would say that if you want to move to the US and apply for visas in the UK it can take almost a year. We decided to have a shotgun wedding whilst if was visiting in the States as we could prove I had intentions to leave so hadn't entered on an esta with intent to stay. It was advised by our lawyer who swore under oath that we'd not considered this previous to his advice and it was easy to prove as we had a whole big, white church wedding booked and paid for in Wales.

It did break my heart to have to do a quick, legal ceremony with no family or friends there but it was the best way of avoiding the ridiculous wait I would have had if I'd been applying from the UK. And I was terrified I'd fall pregnant and be without dh for a year plus.

The stuff you have to do to get your green card is unbelievable, doctors, countless injections, letters from US citizens of upstanding positions who've known you and your relationship and then signed by notaries that know them personally, so many meetings and unless you're moving to a big city the nearest offices are generally a day or so's travel away.

katebakes Wed 16-Oct-13 18:56:39

I went to the USA to meet his family and had absolutely no intention of getting married at all. My family weren't there etc. Then one Wednesday he told me that it meant a lot to him to be legally married, that he wanted us to be a family and for me To be his wife. I didn't think it would help or hinder us but honestly it's made things much more difficult.

Also INJECTIONS?!? sad

BummyMummy77 Wed 16-Oct-13 20:51:42

The best thing you could have done was apply for an adjustment of status while you were still there. Hindsight's great isn't it?

Yup. Injections. TB (although I have a sodding great scar from the one I've already had), MMR (although I've actually had all three illnesses), tdap (tetanus, diphtheria, polio), whooping cough, hep b, flu jab type b I think were the ones I had.

Plus a full physical and sexual health screening (aids and hepatitis tests).

My green card interview itself was terrifying. I was SO nervous and they kept asking questions to catch me out. They're well trained to spot body language and lies etc though so my lawyer told me they decided pretty early on in the interview I just had nerves and hubby and I were legit and were enjoying playing with me. Gits!

They ask some probing questions though (what will you name your children, stuff about each other's parents, favourite food and colours etc). It would be pretty bloody hard to fool them.

BummyMummy77 Wed 16-Oct-13 20:52:57

Oh, if you've had those injections you can get letters from your doctor which I think they'd accept. I just couldn't get them in time. Also, you may want to try getting them from your gp as it would be free/a whole lot cheaper than paying for them once in the US.

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