Pregnant (IVF) Worriers (part two)

[Shazzamattazzerly]

Hi everyone,

This thread is for all you incessant worriers out there, not necessarily limited to IVF-ers, although I get the feeling the people who have had trouble TTC are more prone to worrying than others! We have filled our first thread (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/1721178-Pregnant-IVF-Worriers) but there is more worrying to do so here we are.

A few of us graduated from the IVF thread (link below) and are having a go at our own thread to get out of the other IVF-ers hair! So get your roomy jogging bottoms on for some virtual hand holding, mutual symptom spotting and staying sane until the next scan date.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1691674-Excellent-Egg-Buddies-continued-Anyone-having-IVF-ICSI-in-Jan-Feb-and-March-2013-please-join-us

[buzzybee123]

thanks for the new thread shazza

someone mention getting to 37 weeks with twins, from what I've read that is pretty good going to get that far, a friend had hers at 32 weeks and another at 36 weeks.

my cat make makes me nervous every time she comes near me, I think one of the twins died on Thursday night, that is why there have been changes might explain the so called looking cyst in my cervix going to try and get a scan next Monday when i'll be 7 weeks, maybe I am just giving myself false hope, i'm just fed up with all the drugs and how they make me feel . . .

[Shazzamattazzerly]

Hello Buzzy
I'm glad you are ok. So did they say that they could see 2 sacs? That could be an explanation. I'm keeping everything crossed for you. A week is a terribly long time to wait and wonder (and worry). The drugs must be taking their toll on you physically and emotionally. When will DH be back? Sending you loads of love. xx

[ExpatAl]

Hello ladies. Thanks for starting this thread Shazza.

Buzzy, I really feel for you. This uncertainty is horrible. Are you bleeding at all?

Another few days down and all is well. Feeling a lot better but won't really breathe until I get to and past 28 weeks.

[fairypangolin]

buzzy all I can say is hang in there!

shazza thanks for starting the new thread. You asked about lying on your back in Pilates. The whole not lying on your back thing has come about because if your uterus is heavy enough it can block oxygen to the vena cava, depriving you and the baby. But you would then feel it too and it would only happen after lying on your back for a prolonged period. I have been reading the Bumpology book (thanks whoever on this thread recommended it, I can't recall right now) and it says there is no evidence that lying on your back harms your baby but it may make you feel dizzy and if so roll over. If you think about it, it would be a bit odd if it were so easy to harm your baby, pregnant women must have been lying on their back for thousands of years!

[ExpatAl]

Shazza, on back if legs are up is fine. Make sure you feel stable with that move (nag nag).

[putthecrispsDOWN]

Hello all! Just checking in to the new thread (thanks shazza).

buzzy keep the faith! Is there anything you can do to keep your mind off things? I read hundreds of books, watched box sets and even played computer games when I lost one Dd and was trying to stay pregnant for the other. Not particularly practical but it did distract me from the mentalling for a while which seemed to make the time pass quicker.

I'm going to wean myself off the fanny candles soon too. I am a progesterone junkie...DH keeps telling me that I can stop now (doc said stop at 9wks) but I have carried on. I think I'll just finish this pack..

So who has scans and such like this week?

[fairypangolin]

gin so glad you had a good 12 week scan. I relaxed a lot after that point, hope you can too. Sorry about the itching though. I am also itchy on my bump, armpits, legs... I've been using only aqueous cream to wash, nothing else in the bath, E45 cream, canesten, vagisil (yes I am that desperate come 2am) but nothing seems to work. I tried about 5 different deodorants and finally found one that doesn't make the itch worse at least. I think I might try the GP to see if she can prescribe something stronger.

dildals you asked about preg pillows a while back. One thing I found with the SPD/PGP is that since I sleep on my side, a pillow under my upper knee really helped to keep my hips stable and aligned. A friend gave me a preg pillow for my first pregnancy and I've actually been using it pretty well constantly for the five years since! Partly because my hip pain never completely went away but partly because it is also great for propping you up when breast feeding or reading in bed etc. so i think they are worth it esp if you have PGP.

[SweetieTime]

buzzy time passes to slowly when you are waiting. That might be a possible explanation if you have felt changes. The med don't help as they give symptoms of their own too. Try to keep positive until the scan when you will know more.

gin great news on the scan results

Expat glad you are having a few good days, long may they continue

I start my weening off the meds this week too, the clinic gave me a schedule to reduce things over a couple of weeks. I won't be sad to see the back of the progesterone that is for sure especially in this weather.

[MarianaTrench]

Thinking of you buzzy, I hope you're coping. I recommend playing mindless games on your phone or whatever.

I've caught up on all your posts but now can't remember all the individual issues and can't scroll back easily.

My tuppence worth: itching is hell, I get it due to dry skin and swear by Aveeno - the creamy oil in particular.

Names. We are married but I have never changed my name as it's not wise in my line of work and also I prefer my hard to spell foreign name to DHs. The children have his name though and mine will be lost to history!

I have been decorating all weekend. I do not recommend this with a 6 week old baby who wants feeding every hour. I'm shattered and know I'll only get about four hours sleep tonight.

Hope everyone else is ok.

[keepitgoing]

Hi everyone - gosh lots has been going on and i finally have a chance to catch up properly

claire welcome and many congratulations. You're doing great. I'm 14.5 weeks and i think the stage we're at is a bit odd as you feel better but don't look pregnant really, and can't feel anything yet.

mrsH I have an anterior placenta so think i'll feel the baby move later, which i'm a bit sad about. Does anyone else have this. I can't wait to feel movement!

nok good to see you! Congrats on the scan, how's the craziness getting on? You'll be at magic 12 weeks soon, in fact after 9 things look really good.

dildals i can't believe you're getting leakage, i thought that only came after pregnancy Oh god. I've been doing pelvic floors but will up the numbers...

gin congratulations on your 12 weeks scan! I agree that after that I am finding it easier to relax and feel more 'normal' in my pregnancy. I can't believe you're in maternity clothes already - I have no need yet. As for fanny candles, i stopped overnight at 9 weeks exactly, as per clinic instructions. They didn't bother to test my blood, just said that if the placenta's there then all is being done as needed. So don't worry and I think getting rid of them has helped a lot in the 'feeling normal' thing.

buzzy i'm so sorry that you are going through this, but I think that the difference in size day to day is so miniscule - we have a +/- of 6 days even at the 12 week scan, and at my 5 week scan they wouldn't date. I think you should try and get another scan a week later rather than waiting for two weeks. Oh gosh, I am so sorry you are going through this. I think it sounds likely that you had initially had both implanted, and now just the one. Isn't it weird how animals know what's going on?

Ladies, when did you/will you/should you stop sleeping on your stomach and/or back. I usually sleep on my stomach. I think from what i've read is that you should stop sleeping on your stomach when it's uncomfortable (it's not for me as I have barely any tummy yet) and you shouldn't sleep on your back because of that vein/artery but not sure when. What are people doing? And surely you just turn over in your sleep? DH says he'll wedge me in when the time comes but that sounds bad... I was thinking about 18 weeks??

Another glamorous thing this end is I have what DH has diagnosed as 'skin tags'. A couple have formed under my armpits, and make shaving a real fag. Google says people get them on the fanjos (please god no) and under breasts too, and they might go away post preg or you can get them frozen off. Also, my legs are really really dry and itchy too fairy so i feel your pain there. They seem irritated by chlorine too, even if i shower immediately.

Am still exhausted all the time. And have spots. Am patiently awaiting the glowing part of the second trimester.

But on the plus side sex is amazing!!!

[Shazzamattazzerly]

Morning ladies

I'm tired today. Stayed up to watch zoolander I remembered it was very funny and I felt like I needed a good laugh!

Fairy thanks for the lying on back info. I feel ok doing it and it isn't for long. Like you I think that there are so many things that we are told to avoid and women have been giving birth for millennia even in caves so we should be ok if we are careful. Excuse my ignorance but what is SPD and PGP? Is bumpology a pregnancy book? We were lent a few so I haven't bought any. I was thinking to get a book for after the birth though. I'm going to get some out of the library.

Expat thanks for the Pilates tip. I think I'm ok but I could probably benefit from a class or two. I do feel better after doing it even though getting up at 6am is very hard. How are you doing now?

Crisps I wish I had a scan this week. I'm starting to feel the need for reassurance. How are you feeling? Less overwhelmed?

Sweetie well done re meds. Soon the fanny candles will be a distant memory.

Mariana thanks for aveeno cream tip. I wonder if it would help relieve the itching from the hives? I think I'll try it. Re decorating we are trying to do it now before shazlett makes an appearance. It's hard though. When the sun is shining we are indoors. Poor DP has been boarding the loft and it was warm up there yesterday.

Keep I agree that this is a strange time. I'm symptom free apart from some late night stretching and my bump is pretty small. Especially in the mornings. It is hard to believe I'm even pregnant. What is an 'anterior placenta'? Would they have told me if I had one? Re sleep. I usually sleep on my tummy with one leg bent up. When that became uncomfortable I put a pillow next to me and put my bent leg on that. That gave me abit of support. Now I'm sleeping on my left side with the pillow between my legs, abit under my tummy and between my boobs (they aren't too big yet). This is really comfy at the mo although the pillow takes a lot of room. I usually change to my right for a short while after my early hours trip to the loo but change back pretty quickly. I'm going to invest in a bolster pillow soon. Mariana suggested one on the last thread and my friend told me about one from John Lewis yesterday that is like a long beanbag so it molds with your body.

Oh and skin tags. I'm quite moley anyway but I thought that I'd noticed a few extra bumps on the sides of my neck when I was putting moisturiser on the other day. So it is probably that. I'm also spotty on and off. Still waiting for blooming to start! Although I have had a few hair compliments lately. I'm also still off sex unfortunately . I hope that desire comes back.

Have a good day all.

[keepitgoing]

I'll try that shaz, sounds comfy. Anterior placenta is placenta on the front wall of the uterus. Not uncommon and not a problem but can muffled the kicks, as you feel them at the front. She didn't tell me, I asked.

[fairypangolin]

shazza SPD stands for "symphysis pubis disorder" and PGP "pelvic girdle pain". They both describe the same problem, which is pain and stiffness in the hips and pelvis. It comes about when the hormone relaxin is released which loosens the joints holding the bones together, causing strain on the ligaments. All pregnant women have their joints loosened but for some reason some women are effected to a much greater extent than others, causing pain and stiffness.

It wasn't really known or talked about before about 10 years ago and only recently has it become commonly recognised. Whether this is because there is something that pregnant women do now that they didn't do previously is not known (eg many more have full time desk jobs where they sit down all the time and create a lot of pressure on the hips) or it has always been a problem but not recognised (lots of doctors and midwives even today think it is just 'part of pregnancy' or confuse it with sciatica or lower back pain) is not known.

The pain can come and go during pregnancy, even on a day to day basis. In some women it becomes severe and they need crutches or a wheelchair. With most women it improves after birth but for some it doesn't. There is a website with a lot of information about it called "the pelvic partnership".

[MarianaTrench]

Keep, I got a skin tag in each arm pit but they were more like small raised moles but colourless. I was referred to dermatology as I had so many skin changes during my first pregnancy, the hormones can cause all sorts to happen. I was checked all over and had two larger moles removed as they were itching and one went crusty but it was on my stomach so stretched anyway. The skin tags have never spread elsewhere and don't get caught when I shave so I just ignore them as they're very small.

Shazza I sleep on my front but I stopped around 14 weeks and went into my side. I think back sleeping is only a no no once you're quite far on and even then I think it's ok to sleep on your back if your propped up, it's lying totally flat that can be harmful occasionally. There was a study done about stillbirth and sleeping position and it concluded that it was safest to sleep on your left side, although the study was flawed. There's a good summary of it here:
www.nhs.uk/news/2011/06June/Pages/mothers-sleeping-position-and-risk-of-stillbirth.aspx

claire sorry, I forgot to congratulate you!

[fairypangolin]

Hi all - had an appointment at the "VBAC clinic" today, eg "vaginal birth after caesarean". The midwife I spoke with was v supportive of a home birth, which is what I would like to try for. So presuming my community midwives agree (which I should think is no problem because the one I have seen so far has all been in favour of it) that should be fine. I've also said that if I go more than 7 days overdue though I would prefer to schedule a caesarean than be induced as I don't want to go through what I did last time.

However, when I was reading through the literature on VBAC, I was astonished to read that the incidence of secondary infertility is doubled if you have a caesarean for your previous birth (16% among women having a vaginal birth previously, 32% among those having a caesarean). This research is quoted by NCT and by NICE but I have never seen it in any information on secondary infertility I have ever read nor has any doctor mentioned it to me. If this actually is true then they should be advising women of this risk of a caesarean, after all they advise on far far lesser risks all the time (like 'uterine rupture' in a VBAC which has only a .27% chance of occurring!)

I have seen it referred to anecdotally and on MN but never in any medical literature. Has anyone else been advised on this who has had secondary infertility?

shazza "bumpology" is a book published last year that tries to bring together all the medical evidence on the usual questions one has in pregnancy and present it for a lay audience. Look for it on amazon, I've enjoyed reading it.

[Shazzamattazzerly]

Thanks for the explanation Fairy. I'm pretty stiff in the pelvis anyway as I hold a lot of tension there I'm hoping the Pilates and yoga will help. But I'd never heard of the actual name for those pains. I'll look out for bumpology. It sounds good.

The stuff about cesarian and secondary infertility is incredible! Like you I can't believe that this isn't mentioned. That's great if you might be able to have a home birth. I'm comjng round to the idea. The MW gas booked us into a home birth workshop so that we can learn more about it.

And thanks Mariana for the link. I have never been able to sleep on my back. DP does until I roll him over to stop the snoring! And it's just too I comfy on my tummy now. The pillow is working well at the mo. I'm going to move up to a bolster soon. I think that will make all the difference. I quite enjoy snuggling up to something. DP gets very hot.

I'm very thankful to be on my way home at last. Had a thunderous headache today. I know they are supposed to be common in pregnancy. This was my first. Looking forward to resting at home.

[putthecrispsDOWN]

Hi ladies, hope we are all well.
buzzy how are you doing my lovely?
fairy and shazza kudos to you both for the home birth plans. I had 18 people in when I last gave birth so it was very crowded, but bizarrely it still felt very intimate and not at all impersonal. I think a hospital birth is still for me this time (helps with the mentalling!) but my next door neighbour had a home birth and loved it. I'd certainly have loved to have been at home straight after the birth, when it was over I just wanted my own bed and shower and loo!
keep I am quite moley too but I got skin tags in my last pg. they don't bother me so I've never had them removed but I think some GPs can freeze them off?
mariana you sound like supermum decorating with a newborn! I remember the sleeplessness well, I just felt permanently hungover and a bit ill. Hope you get some sleep tonight I won't mention that dd1 didn't sleep through until she was two and a half...

Today a colleague at work (who I used to like!) came up to me, pointed at my bump (was in smart tailored dress today so quite obvious) and said..."am I saying congratulations then?" "uh, yes, although its a bit early so I havent really wanted to tell anyone officially" "oh, how far gone are you then" (hate the fact that we are 'gone' when pregnant, what's that all about?) "um, nine to ten weeks ish" " oh you're big. Are you sure it isn't twins" "it is twins actually" "oh my goodness. I bet that's the last thing you wanted or needed at the moment".

What the hell? What? Stupid woman. I really want to tell people to fuck off and that it is none of their goddam business but don't want to be rude. Any ideas on good comebacks that won't make me look like a bitch but will get rid of idiots like this?

Rant over, thanks!

[MarianaTrench]

Crisps - That is spectacularly rude. I would favour telling her to fuck off but that's probably not sensible. How about saying 'Well actually we're delighted, we've had a struggle getting to this point.' That might work. My DD1 was a horrendous sleeper until I did controlled crying at 10 months, I'll do it with DD2 at about seven months so I just have to keep going until then... (Super mum I am not! My parents were here minding the baby.)

fairy, I knew absolutely nothing about the link with c sections and secondary infertility. I consider myself quite well informed about pregnancy but that is genuinely a surprise. When I requested my section my consultant said whether I can easily support you or not depends on whether you plan to have more children as most of the risks are about problems in future pregnancies - scar ruptures, adhesions etc. I said this was my last and that was that. It makes sense though as you must have scar tissue reducing the surface area for implantation to take place in.

I've never considered a home birth! Kudos to those who do though and avoiding the post natal ward has to be a huge bonus.

I'm dreading this evening, the colic is back despite my dairy avoidance. I think we just have to see it out now, should improve in oh about another 5 weeks.

^^

[GinSoaked]

FFS at your colleague crisps. Firstly how bloody rude to ask you outright and then to make a comment like that?! I have no witty come backs and am v cross on your behalf.

Sorry about the headache shazz. I had a proper migraine last week and had to take the day off work. :) at another spooky coincidence in our OHs both being from god's own county (as he calls it).

I too am v impressed at the potential home births. I am far too much of a worrier to not be at hospital and also don't wanna mess up my own sheets

Good luck for tonight mariana!

Thanks for the fanny candle tips. I'm weaning myself off them and no bleeding so far... I have had a crap day re sickiness. Blurgh. I thought it was meant to get better at 12 weeks?! I do keep remembering the tiny baby on the scan though and thinking it's all so worth it.

I'm telling my team at work on Friday. Am debating whether to say it's ivf. Other than my boss, no one knows about it. A bit of me thinks it's none of their business and the other part thinks why should I hide it and I'd like to try to help normalise ivf. Hmmm, what have other ivfers done/planning to do?'

[buzzybee123]

crisps you should say 'and I'm interested in your ignorant narrow minded short sighted opinion because............' but I am a cow, my colleague who is an Aussie male physio has already told me I scare him I've already gone up a dress size with the drugs not all the obsessive stoggie eating the weight gain in what 2 weeks is rather scary

again tell her you are a competent and organised woman so you will no doubt manage quite well, its called mirroring she is projecting feelings of herself onto you, clearly she is not keen on herself

mariana sorry about the colic

gin I worked with a guy back home and his wife had sickness until she gave birth I have made no secret about telling people but then most of these people are aware of my miscarriages so have been waiting for an 'announcement', Barry told the family not to mention its IVF, I don't care what people think though, I am happy for them to think that its because of me as its DE, its what you feel comfortable telling them

thanks for asking about me ladies, I feel like shit right now, just constantly eating then feeling crap a bit of sickness earlier today and back to a 3+ so I think Thursday/Friday was about one of the twins not making it

[putthecrispsDOWN]

buzzy sorry to hear that if that is the case. Glad your test results and symptoms are back. I've gone through the same thing and it's very odd, you feel distraught and also grateful at the same time. I hope the next few weeks bring you some answers and a plan to move forwards and look forward to.

gin I tend not to mention IVF unless asked specifically. I'm not ashamed of it at all, but I find even educated people are quite ignorant of how it works and ask tons of questions because it is something different. Most of them will then also offer their opinions, which can be a little insensitive: it's not natural/oh they fixed you see I told you so etc. My close friends know and are ok but at work I sometimes feel like the person that people talk about when they say 'I've got this friend that...' and gossip. I get easily irritated by people so try not to give them the opportunity to piss me off! I think it's a personal thing though, do as you feel is right. Congrats on the 12weeks too, awesome!

I didn't give much of a reply to said stupid woman. The woman kind of works for me and I don't think she meant to be rude so tried to be dignified. Was also asked today about whether I would be able to do my job and have three children (I am an assistant head - teaching is quite old fashioned with respect to womens abilities!). My response: watch me. And then I smiled. I was quite chuffed with myself for that!

[fairypangolin]

crisps wow that is rude on so many points. The only snappy answer I can think of to 'how far gone are you?' is 'so far gone I ain't never coming back!' ha haha. No, it's pretty feeble. One of the higher ups at my workplace last pregnancy and now this one never missed an opportunity to exclaim loudly in front of everyone at how 'big' I was. Thanks.

mariana I'm really surprised too. I wonder if that's part of the reason why secondary infertility seems to be increasing as the caesarean rate keeps going up as well? I'm amazed this hasn't been investigated thoroughly.

gin I haven't told anyone at work it was IVF apart from one colleague who was very helpful throughout. I don't think they'd understand and I don't want to have to try to explain it. I have told friends though.

I'm really going for the home birth because I am not allowed in the brand new midwife led unit because I have had a caesarean before and so my only other option is to go back to the same delivery unit where I had an extended traumatic labour before. I just want everything to not be like the first time. I don't feel afraid of giving birth at home, whereas my first time round I was. We are only 10 min from the hospital anyway if something were to go wrong.

[fairypangolin]

oh and gin sorry about the sickness still. I had it until about 14 weeks with both pg but it eased up after 12 weeks so wasn't every day.

[Shazzamattazzerly]

Crisps I'm astounded at the rudeness. I don't have a witty or clever comeback I'm afraid, I think that I would say, "actually they are both very much wanted and needed and we are thrilled to be welcoming them into our family." Your response to the coping comment was ace!

Mariana I'm only just venturing into the world of parenting techniques. Is there a reason why you decided to try controlled crying (apart from the obvious sleeping problem) and a reason why you will leave it until 7 months this time? I know that it is early days but it is bewildering. I'm confused by all the conflicting advice. I'm sorry that you are expecting a difficult evening. I hope that you are surprised.

Gin It is so worth it. Just keep thinking of little Gintastic. I'm not sure about the IVF dilemma. I didn't tell work that I was going for treatment and haven't now told them the whole saga about the miracle conception. Our friends and family know everything and like you I wanted to tell them because I wanted to normalise IVF. I don't think that there is anything to be ashamed of, quite the opposite. I think that it is amazing that the opportunity is out there. However, telling your nearest and dearest is different to telling colleagues. When I told my boss, he mentioned another 'older' mother at work and said something like, "Don't worry about age, I mean look at *** she had her last one with some strange intervention or something'. He meant well but was abit ignorant.

Buzzy, I'm so sorry that things are tough. Hang on in there honey. Good news that the digi reading has gone up. It sounds like sadly you lost one but you have another one there that needs you to be strong in these trying days. My thoughts are with you.

Fairy, we are further than 10 mins from the hospital. I'm still not totally convinced. Partly cause of risk and partly cause I'm completely anal about cleanliness not sure about how it would work here as our flat isn't that big.

I cooked the most spectacular, tasty, protein and calcium packed dinner tonight even if I say so myself . Quinoa, loads of green veg, smoked salmon cooked right at the end, topped with toasted seeds. And there is some for lunch. I'm looking forward to it already!

I'm having an early night tonight. DP is painting so I'm on my own. Do you think that it is ok to go to bed when it is still light outside? I feel like a little girl!

Night all. x

[MarianaTrench]

buzzy I hope you get some answers and reassurance soon.

I've been in bed for hours already! She seems better being fed in the dark and I'm very tired anyway.

shazza, controlled crying is a tricky one. I didn't want to do it but was at the end of my tether. It used to take three hours to settle DD1 and even then she would wake an hour later and I'd be in with her for another couple of hours. I used to lie on her floor singing to her, deranged with tiredness (I wouldn't bed share then either). With controlled crying she was self settling and sleeping through within three nights. First night she (and I) cried for an hour, second night half an hour and third night five minutes. It meant naps no longer consisted of me walking round and round the park with a blanket draped over the pram, and then her waking the second we got home. I could put her in her cot after lunch and she'd sleep for two hours. it worked very well for her and she was a happier child for getting decent amounts of sleep and I was far happier not being shattered all the time. It's controversial though and you're not supposed to use it on babies younger than seven months so that's why I'll wait. It's awful doing it but if it works then it's great. I am a great one for routines though, except I've always fed on demand, but routine keeps everything vaguely in order and allows me to feel like I'm in control. I'm awful at going with the flow etc. Anyway, don't worry about parenting - I mostly made it up as I went along and did whatever felt right to me. It's a very individual thing and very easy to be judgey of others (which is secretly quite fun!)

I think you should be open about IVF if you're comfortable with that. I am open about my losses and fertility issues as I think, like some of you have said, that it's needs publicly acknowledging that pregnancy is a massive challenge for many of us. It might make them think twice in future.