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1st baby, 1st job in hospitality - please help

30 replies

Mrsmkat · 24/01/2013 21:56

Hello mumsnetters, I hope you can help me. This is my first post on here so I apologise in advance for not following any required MN etiquette.

I am a chartered accountant who career changed last year. I spent a year full time at culinary school in 2012 and finished my qualification at the end of the year. I have just started (about 2 weeks ago) a new job as a pastry chef. I am also approx 14 weeks pregnant.

As this is my first baby and my first job in a food career I just have a couple of queries.

My new employer is great, I took the job as I like the work (good commute, cuisine I like and freedom for me to run the pastry section as I see fit) but it's a small team (3 chefs and it's very hands on). I went for an unpaid trial (standard) and they offered me the job on the spot. I was 11 weeks pregnant then. I was meant to have my 12 week scan the next week. It then took a little while to agree a start date so I started the job the same week as my 12 week scan (I was actually 13 weeks along by then). The day after I had the 12 week scan I asked to speak to my employer (my 2nd day at work) but he was busy and fobbed me off (he tends to do that quite a bit) and he only spoke to me when I insisted the next day. I told him that I was pregnant and I wanted to declare this up front as being such a small team I needed him to think seriously about how this would / would not work for him and/or his business (baby due July) before we went any further.

His reaction wasn't exactly positive - but he did congratulate me at the end of the working day. I put his awkward reaction down to shock maybe.

Anyway that was about a week ago. I have since worked every single day and clocked up about 60 hours of labour. I asked about paperwork and getting an employment contract set up and he was very casual about it - I asked again middle of last week and he said he would get round to it. I can't help but think he is dragging his feet as he doesn't know what to do about my pregnancy.

I then had another chat with him saying that while I understand we are allowed to eat anything from the kitchen as a lunch meal, I would like to bring in my own food (salads, fruit etc) from time to time as I need to graze during the day ((due to "morning" (which is really "all day")sickness)) and so I might have a quick snack (literally 2 minutes) in between doing one task and the next. I explained this was also because I have gone off quite a lot of food and don't always fancy the daily soup / hot pot / sandwich of the day served where I work.

I also had to mention that I would need to take an actual break at lunch (this is not standard - the other chefs, all male, barely eat, take no breaks other than multiple fag breaks and eat standing up) but I do really need a sit down half way through the day and I had to ask for a chair.

I am not very familiar with the law (not UK born) and have always worked in very corporate ie EXTREMELY compliant, formal enviroments where one would never start work without a signed contract, payroll forms completed, etc etc

It is starting to worry me (the dodging the contract bit), the not knowing my actual rights in this industry and honestly whether I can work these sorts of hours in that envronment while carrying my little one. Sorry to ramble. My questions are:

Is it unreasonable to request a proper break (ie half an hour - SAT DOWN - , actual break) when working a shift that is 7am to 5pm (this is standard) even though no one else seems to take one?

Is it unreasonable to push and insist on a formal employment contract / confirmation? I have already clocked up 60 hours with not even 1 form or paper filled filled - I am worried about making a fuss until they at least pay me (mid Feb pay date) because right now, legally, I think they could actually not pay me if I leave /if we fall out.

How do ante natal appointments work? When I asked the head chef about this he said he would schedule my days off on those days. I read that I am entitled to paid time off for them - is that the same as having my days off as well? That said, I am not sure if my days off are paid or unpaid as I have no contract? Do I have to take those appointment as my days off? That means I will never have a weekend off in the next 6 months as obv there are no ante natal appointments over weekends. A man would never be in that position so is that fair?

Please help any legal eagles / employment or HR experts / hospitality careeer veterans.

Thanks so much. Sorry for the length!

OP posts:
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Ivvu6 · 24/01/2013 23:16

Hi, I would contact citizen advice bureau if I would be you. They will explain to you excactly what your rights are.
But til then, this is something to read www.gov.uk/working-when-pregnant-your-rights
www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/pregnancy.htm

You need to look after yourself!
Hope you´ll get things sorted

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lovemybabyboy · 24/01/2013 23:38

I would also recommend contacting citizens advice.

You are entitled to your break, do not feel bad about taking a proper break and sitting down (pregnant women are legally allowed to take more breaks to sit down, which would be good for you if you are on your feet all day).
I think they are being quite reasonable about giving you your days off on appointment days, you wont have to go months without a weekend off as you only see the midwife every few weeks not every week, however you are legally entitled to paid time off work for antenatal appointments so if you want to bring that up with them then you have a right to.
I think you need to find out what your rights are regarding the whole contract situation and your boss needs to sort that out one way or another.

Best of luck to you, I hope you manage to sort it all out.

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constantnamechanger · 24/01/2013 23:46

To be honest whatever the law says - you were massively unfair in taking a job with such a small business kknowing you were pregnant.

That's not being upfront - and I personally wouldn't trust you now.

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Kafri · 25/01/2013 05:21

If your citizens advice is anything like mine you'll be lucky tinbecseen by the time your child is 18 let alone immediately. Try contacting ACAS?' They can tell you anything you need to know. I've rung them a few times re DH paternity leave. There's a website - google it - with the contact number. Very helpful.

For what it's worth, I agree with constantnamechanger, you weren't up front about your pg and probably should have been vim all for knowing your rights but he's trying to build/maintain a business too.

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AmandaCooper · 25/01/2013 05:47

Well you seem to have a fair idea of what your employment rights are and if you were a chartered accountant you won't need Acas or Ctizens Advice to tell you what you can read on many a website. It would certainly be nice to have your t's and c's in writing - and you are entitled to that - but you won't need it to bring a claim.

The difficulty here is not knowing whar your rights are but working out where the balance is between insisting on them and potentially doing yourself out of a decent entry level job in your new profession - or damaging your relationship with someone who could help you get on and build your new career.

Do you actually need to sit down for a full scheduled half hour every day throughout your pregnancy, or might you sometimes need that but other times cope with sporadic short breaks or a half hour whenever you can fit it in? You probably won't have to bring and eat your own food for the whole nine months. Can you compromise on the antenatal appointments and take some of them in your own time? I've taken holiday for all but one of mine and I work in a heavily unionised environment.

It must have been a shock for your employer when you disclosed your pregnancy and I do have some sympathy for him - particularly as he might not know the legal and financial niceties of pregnancy and maternity himself. I don't think you were wrong to take on the job, but I do think now you've made that choice your priority should be to find a way make it work for both you and the business; long term you need this break if you're really committed to the career change.

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DreamingOfTheMaldives · 25/01/2013 07:24

Because I'm sure her boss would still have given her serious consideration for the position if he'd known she was pregnant! If she'd told him, she would basically have been ensuring she didn't get the job! I can't imagine that a pastry chef will be a difficult position to fill temporarily whilst she is on maternity leave (no offence intended OP)

OP, I think that if you can you should have your appointments on days off. Although you are entitled for paid leave to attend them I think you should only treat this as when necessary rather than an extra. Most people who work M-F would have their appointments at the weekend if they could but it isn't possible so there has to be laws in place to ensure that women can attend appointments and are not financially penalised for it. Your employer shouldn't be penalised for you having to attend appointments if there is a workable solution.

It doesn't surprise me that you haven't got a contract as yet. Keep asking for one but I don't think you need to panic about it. Catering is a very different industry to finance and such things aren't always considered the same priority. I worked in criminal law for years and there were people who had been there for years who didn't have a contract!

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constantnamechanger · 25/01/2013 08:09

I don't disagree - but there is a certain irony in saying I decided to be up front.

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TheCountessOlenska · 25/01/2013 08:32

You've certainly picked the worst industry to be pregnant in OP!

DH works in hospitality and still hasn't got a contract - he's been in his current job for nearly a year!

Yes you should get a proper break and a chair - but you won't be looked on with any respect by the other chefs.

As for ante-natal appointments - it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't get a weekend off in six months, this is entirely normal in the industry. DH never has weekends off.

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freerangelady · 25/01/2013 08:41

Yes you should have a contract. Yes, officially you should get a break but like someone up thread says you won't get much respect from colleagues if you fuss about it (I'm not saying don't have breaks, I'm saying don't fuss about it.)

Re antenatal appts, as a you do have a 'right' to time off if you have exhausted all other possibilities. As a small employer myself I would certainly expect you to have days off in the wk and work every wk end. Tough if you don't get a wk end off for 6 months. Did you expect any different when you took a job in catering.

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DeathMetalMum · 25/01/2013 09:57

Having worked in hospitality a lot pre dc the 'contract' issue seem normal. Unless you work for a large chain I have not had a contract as such. There is a high staff turnover, due to the neature and possibly stress of the job (depending on your personality) it was just the norm.

In regards to breaks I would insist on one 20-30 minute 'lunch/dinner' break however at a quiet time. When in the kitchen I used to go out and sit in a quiet part of the restaraunt and eat and have a drink for 20 mins or so. Others in the kitchen didn't do this but waiting on staff did so I didn't feel guilty at all. You are entitled to 20 minutes break after you have worked 4 hours. (I belive this is unpaid.)

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Mrsmkat · 25/01/2013 22:52

Thank you to everyone who has replied, I appreciate all the responses.

I think I will ask to get some form of employment confirmation. I don't qualify for SMP etc and I am aware of that, I was more concerned as they have not even taken my bank details yet for end of the month's pay and i would hate to do all these hours for nothing.

Re weekend hours, I was aware of the need to work hours in this industry, I was more questioning the logic in reference to fairness between men and women.

To Consta ntnamechanger - are you suggesting that pregnant women should be unemployed the whole 9 months? I had no idea if my pregnancy was viable ( i had cramping and bleeding at 8 weeks but could not get an NHS scan immediately due to Christmas and New Years) - i told my employer less than 48 hous after I found out my baby was alive. It Would have been 24 if he hadn't fobbed me off when I asked to speak about an urgent matter. You twat!

I am not looking to sue / force the issue - I want experience not a life commitment to this small business. I told him so that he could think about whether the fit would work. If not, we will separate ways. I just want to be able to take a break without him thinking I am skiving. Which is why I offered to bring my own food in (in case my nausea means i nibble on/graze more than the "average" employee, which he may not care to subidise).

Thanks to all for replies.

OP posts:
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Mrsmkat · 25/01/2013 23:02

Thank you to everyone who has replied, I appreciate all the responses.

I think I will ask to get some form of employment confirmation. I don't qualify for SMP etc and I am aware of that, I was more concerned as they have not even taken my bank details yet for end of the month's pay and i would hate to do all these hours for nothing.

Re weekend hours, I was aware of the need to work hours in this industry, I was more questioning the logic in reference to fairness between men and women.

To Consta ntnamechanger - are you suggesting that pregnant women should be unemployed the whole 9 months? I had no idea if my pregnancy was viable ( i had cramping and bleeding at 8 weeks but could not get an NHS scan immediately due to Christmas and New Years) - i told my employer less than 48 hous after I found out my baby was alive. It Would have been 24 if he hadn't fobbed me off when I asked to speak about an urgent matter. You twat!

I am not looking to sue / force the issue - I want experience not a life commitment to this small business. I told him so that he could think about whether the fit would work. If not, we will separate ways. I just want to be able to take a break without him thinking I am skiving. Which is why I offered to bring my own food in (in case my nausea means i nibble on/graze more than the "average" employee, which he may not care to subidise).

Thanks to all for replies.

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TheCountessOlenska · 26/01/2013 07:24

I hope my reply wasn't too harsh OP, I just think that this job sounds like a crappy one to be pregnant in! You can (and should) stand up for yourself re. the breaks but I don't think you will get much support from your boss or colleagues - especially because you haven't had a chance to "prove yourself" in the role when not pregnant. Your point about fairness between men and women regarding time off for ante-natal appointments - well, aside from that, as the new girl you would probably have got the worst shifts for the first 6 months anyway - ie. no weekends! I imagine they wouldn't be keen on you scheduling appointments during your shifts as it would leave them one down during service?

I would try another chat with your boss but I honestly think you will struggle with proving yourself in a new job, long hours, on your feet all day, no support from boss/colleagues plus being pregnant for the first time.

Hope all goes ok for you though!

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Mrsmkat · 26/01/2013 08:28

Hi TheCountess, no I didn't think your comment was harsh - you were being realistic and I posted seeking realistic advice as it's a new environment for me. I feel very clear about the "norm" in professional services /finance etc, but know little about hospitality - so I was genuinely seeking "real talk". I appreciate your response.

I just did not appreciate constantnamechanger's assumption that 1. I was doing something sneaky or underhand by going for an interview before my viability scan and the insinuation that I need to ask for permission to start my family because I work for a small company. Constantnamechanger seem to suggest that my pregnancy will somehow derail someone's whole business which I find irrational given that I have only worked there a week!

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TheCountessOlenska · 26/01/2013 18:29

In that industry I should think an undisclosed pregnancy at interview is the least of their worries - undisclosed criminal records more likely if I know chefs!!

If guess if you can stick it out as long as possible and leave on good terms then at least you've gained some experience in a new career - good luck with it all Smile

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Mrsmkat · 26/01/2013 22:56

That is the plan TheCountess - thanks very much!

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TepidCoffee · 27/01/2013 09:20

Unfortunately quite a few people have similar opinions to constantnamechanger.

That's why I'm very grateful we have anti-discrimination laws!

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Letmeintroducemyself · 27/01/2013 09:43

I was CN - I have twice been employed while pregnant and birth times I told them at interview - one of the times I chose to delay my start date til post birth and temped - this was after being laid off for being pregnant.

Pregnancy is not a reason not to employ someone.

Nonetheless think it is morally wrong to take a post with a small business without telling them you are pregnant.

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Letmeintroducemyself · 27/01/2013 09:45

as for asking permission Kat you had already started your family before this firm was your employer.

And referring to your boss as a twat because he couldn't speak to you for a whole day speaks volumes to me.

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TwitchyTail · 27/01/2013 10:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TwitchyTail · 27/01/2013 10:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AmandaCooper · 27/01/2013 14:03

"And referring to your boss as a twat because he couldn't speak to you for a whole day speaks volumes to me."

I think OP was calling constantnamechanger a twat, not her boss... which may be against Talk Guidelines but is no reflection on her as an employee.

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Letmeintroducemyself · 27/01/2013 15:20

Amanda - that's how I first read it.

But then I thought that given how well spoken she is in the rest of her posts should wouldn't be so offensive merely because someone disagrees with her.

If she was - that says even more.

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AmandaCooper · 27/01/2013 18:26

I don't know about that, it was a pretty twattish thing to say.

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Letmeintroducemyself · 27/01/2013 18:36

any post loses credibility in my eyes when it resorts to offensive language to make its point

and of course I did reveal my own pregnancy to potential employers so practiced what I preached so to speak

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