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5w5d and empty gest sac - but high HCG levels

(21 Posts)
Saffroncf Tue 29-Nov-11 18:47:02

Hello

This is the first time I've posted on a msg board before but am feelin a bit desperate.

I have miscarried twice before and have no children, I had a positive preg test after my 2nd IUI, but have just had a scan and been told there is no fetal pole or yoke sac. But they did say my HCG levels were high and I'm still feeling exhausted and sick.

They have counted from the day of my IUI insemination and said on that basis I am 5w5d pregnant.

Just wondering if anyone has had this situation and can offer any words of wisdom. My last was a missed miscarriage at 9w and the gest sac wasnt empty but no HB, the preg stopped at 6w.

Can't believe this looks like my third miscarriage. Seems like I really do have a problem now.

Having HSG levels tested in 2 days and another scan in 9 days.

Thanks in advance for any help

OP’s posts: |
KatAndKit Tue 29-Nov-11 18:56:10

I'm really sorry you are having to go through this, the waiting and the not knowing must be awful.

I can't really tell you what is going on. But with scans before 7 weeks it is really hard to say if the pregnancy will end up being viable or not. you could just be a couple of days too early. Perhaps you didn't ovulate till a day or two after your IUI?

My two previous pregnancies were missed miscarriages. The first one originally had an embryo, but the second was just empty sac. It was only past the guideline cut-off point for diagnosing miscarriage at just before 8 weeks.

I really really hope your next scan shows everything present and correct. perhaps in the meantime your next hcg test will give you some insight, and hopefully reassure you that things are going well. It is crap that there is no way of knowing at this point and the only thing you can do is wait.

yummicheddars Tue 29-Nov-11 18:56:20

I have no personal experience or knowledge of this, but didn't want to run and leave after reading.I do however, remember trouble at beginning of this pregnancy,I had a scan at 5 n half weeks. Not sure if there was anything in the sac. Wasn't told, just that there's no heartbeat and it only looked very small. Was scanned again at 7 and half weeks and had a heartbeat. Then bleeding so another scan and all was good. I'm now 19 weeks pregnant. Yes its very worrting, but ur hcg levels being high is a very gd sign. Basically just want to say, don't drop all hope just yet, congratulations on ur pregnancy! I HOPE everything is ok for u x

PurpleWithaBlueBun Wed 30-Nov-11 10:16:11

Please don't worry, the baby would be so small it could easily be hidden in a little nook. Or if the baby is just a few days younger than they would think, it could simply be too small to see! The fact your HCG levels are good is a great sign.
Keep us posted on how you do, if you fancy a bit of support from an antenatal thread I love these guys lots of us have had losses or just need a bit of positive thinking, you are more than welcome to pop along and we can hold you hand. smile

Listzilla Wed 30-Nov-11 13:06:19

On both my pregnancies, I had a scan at 5 weeks, was told there was an empty gestational sac, and that I would probably miscarry. Both times I went back for a repeat scan two weeks later and there was a baby there, measuring fire for my dates. Baby no. 1 is now my brilliant DD who just started to walk yesterday, and baby no. 2 is due in 10 weeks and is currently kicking the living daylights out of my liver. Turns out my babies are just slightly slow starters : )

Hang in there. It's far too early for something like that to be conclusive. I actually think they should stop doing scans that early, all it achieves is worry!

CaptainMartinCrieff Wed 30-Nov-11 13:13:53

I've not miscarried but... I had heavy bleeding at 6 weeks and had an ultrasound I was told the sac was empty and that i could be miscarrying or that it's just it was too early to see at 6 weeks. They told me to come back 1 week later for a rescan, the bleeding stopped for a while and on rescan at 7 weeks they decided they could see something and I was indeed still pregnant. Maybe it's just too early to see anything?

Saffroncf Wed 30-Nov-11 15:37:28

Thanks all for so much reassurance. I think the thing I find confusing is that because I had IUI i know the conception date - 20 October, and at the hospital, instead of counting the pregnancy from the date of the last period, they are counting from conception date. So according to the conception date I am 6 weeks pregnant tomorrow, but if it was date of the LMP then it is 8 weeks on saturday. I am guessing that everyone else is using the date from their last period above?
Rang hospital re: my HCG levels and they said they were high at 3877 but that looks really behind what it should be as far as my dates are concerned. Anyway, will have to wait til tomorrow and see what happens re: HCG.
Thanks all so much for your comments and advice.

OP’s posts: |
yummicheddars Wed 30-Nov-11 15:52:43

That hcg level is still high and surely should be dropping if a pregnancy was failing? I don't know much about it, but I think when I had mine at 5 weeks they where only 900, yes that was from my last period though. But if you think that u know the date you had sex, the egg wouldn't of implanted on that date, so wouldn't of started producing hormones on that date. I'm not sure how it all works. But good luck! Xx

blacktreaclecat Wed 30-Nov-11 17:24:52

Using the conception date will confuse the issue. I had ivf egg collection on 14/10 and am 8+5. So you are 7+6. Even health professionals who you would think would understand get confused, I just subtract 2 weeks from conception date and tell them that is LMP, it's easier.
Hope your next scan and bloods are positive xxx

justhayley Wed 30-Nov-11 22:19:08

My sac was empty at 5 weeks 4 days, - I'm now 18 weeks 4 days grin don't stress too much at this early stage - I know easier said than done!
Hope everything world out for you xx

buonasera Thu 01-Dec-11 08:14:13

What the posters above said - if you did the IUI 5w ago you're "7 weeks pregnant" (along the same lines I did IVF and I tell midwives etc that my LMP was 2 weeks before the egg collection - it wasn't, but that's the date they need.)

I've had three miscarriages where the pregnancy stopped progressing at about 6-7 weeks and what I do know is that at this 5/6/7 week stage, sometimes you can see something, and sometimes you can't. First time I had the first scan at 11w and it showed a fetal pole, no heartbeat, consistent with everything having stopped at 6 weeks. Second time I had a scan at 8w and it showed the same picture, and the clueless sonographer said maybe I was confused about my dates (I knew when I'd ovulated to within about 12 hours). Third time I had spotting early on so they scanned me every week till 7 weeks and it was only the last time that they saw a heartbeat - so in my experience it's perfectly possible to see nothing one week and then all fine the next.

The only thing to watch out for with high HCG and no gestational sac in the uterus is whether it might be an ectopic pregnancy (sorry to bring this up, but it's worth knowing). If you start getting abdominal pain get back in touch with them ASAP.

[I really really hope you don't need to know about this, but if it turns out it's another miscarriage, you should be eligible for testing for recurrent miscarriage, as it's your third. When I had my third miscarriage I had to fight to make sure that they karyotyped the baby after my ERPC, and we found out she had a trisomy, which turned out to be consistent with a chromosomal abnormality they discovered in me.
Get Lesley Regan's miscarriage book and make sure they do everything she mentions in there, as the stuff in her book is basically everything the NHS will currently test you for.]

sharond101 Thu 01-Dec-11 09:23:03

I had IUI for this pregnancy. I was scanned at exactly 6 weeks and there were two sacs present, one occupied with heartbeat, one without. Nothing has grown in second sac although my HCG levels were very high as in a twin pregnancy and my pregnancy symptoms have been severe. The unoccupied sac is still growing at the same rate as the developing one so the consensus is my HC levels are rising similarly. I was however told at the 6 week scan that although unlikely given other embryo had grown and was visible, the other sac did have time to develop. My pergnancy, now 14w3days has been calculated from the date of my LMP and not the date of IUI. Alot of scanning units do not know what IUI is. I had to go into great detail with them about the procedure and they are still asking strange questions. They maybe don't understand the process and are calculating the dates wrong? It would seem that you are in fact 8wks gone though and if what I was told is correct there would be something visible if viable. You are entitled to investigations should things not go well. You must push for this. Let us know how you get on. We will all be thinking of you.

Saffroncf Thu 01-Dec-11 19:07:34

Thanks very much all again for all your helpful comments. I didnt know there was a book on miscarriage - will def get it. I have had all the tests already re: miscarriage as they gave me them after my second and the only thing they found was slight tendency to clot - so I have been on heparin and aspirin this pregnancy.

I had my second lot of HCG figs back today - 4700, from 3877 2 days ago, a rise of 900. The nurse seemed positive about these until I told her my dates and then she went a bit quiet. Just said come back for a scan next week and keep fingers crossed.

It almost hurts to hope doesn't it? I almost feel that I wish it'd just be over so I don't have to be in limbo. It does feel likely to not be viable tho so expectations are rock bottom. You can't help but hope a bit tho . . . blah blah blah, roll on next thursday!

Thanks once again for all your help, it really is a comfort to know there are others that have been through similar.

OP’s posts: |
Saffroncf Mon 12-Dec-11 18:33:36

Hospital confirmed last week that the pregnancy had failed at around 4/5 weeks so I am waiting to miscarry - nothing so far. Is my third miscarriage :-(
May consider a D&C to get things over by Christmas, altho I wish it would happen naturally. Very sad . . .

OP’s posts: |
bezzyk Mon 12-Dec-11 21:36:08

sorry to read this.

Keep positive, I've had 4 losses (3 in succession) no apparent reason found in my recurrent miscarriage tests, but am now 33 weeks.

It CAN happen xxxx

KD0706 Mon 12-Dec-11 23:53:41

Im really sorry to hear that saffron

I'm sorry I don't have any pearls of wisdom, but I didn't just want to read and run.

sad

toody Tue 13-Dec-11 00:03:29

So sorry I know your devastated right now but there is always hope. I had three miscarriages no reasons were found and I went on to have two beautiful daughters with no problems with either pregnancy. Give yourself time to grieve but try to stay positive.

buonasera Tue 13-Dec-11 08:30:33

I'm so sorry Saffron. But ask them to do tissue karyotyping - if you've had all the blood tests for clotting etc the next thing to look for is whether the baby had the wrong number of chromosomes. (Can happen as a one-off or as a result of you or your other half having a chromosomal abnormality).

It's simple for them to do if you go for a D&C/ERPC, and they should be doing comprehensive testing now that you've had three.

Chandelle Tue 12-May-20 17:08:12

Hello, can anyone pleaseeee help me

I have had 2 confirmed pregnacy test. The first said 1/2 weeks. 5 days later I took another to prove to my children, this came back as 3+. As I have had very light bleeding I rang the docs. Got sent to the early pregnancy unit for a scan, this showed a sac but with no yolk sac or fetal pole. ? So yes this could be very early pregnancy, so they decided to do a blood test for hcg level, this came back at 22000 which is quite high and they would have expected to see something. That puts me around 6/7 weeks. I have another blood test Thursday and another scan on Tuesday. Has anyone had anything similar to this. I'm so desperate for a bit of hope. Thank you

Robin28 Sat 13-Jun-20 22:42:24

Hi Chandelle.
I'm going through this just now. I had blood tests because of an early bleed. On Wednesday last week (when I was 6+4 based on LMP) my HCG was 15000. I then went for an early scan (at 7+3) that showed two gestational sacs with nothing in them. The following day (7+4) my HCG was 47000. They said the rise was a good sign but why are the sacs empty?! I have another scan next week when I will be 8+6. They said that they should definitely be able to see something by then - yolk, fetal pole - otherwise the pregnancy has failed and I've lost my babies.

I'm absolutely terrified. They've said that it might be the case I'm just not as far along as I thought but I am certain when my LMP was and I was tracking my ovulation and got positive-looking tests around day 14/15 when they normally assume ovulation to have occurred. The sacs were measuring in the five week range which would put me nearly two weeks behind and I don't understand how this could be possible. I've dreamed of twins my entire life and I am so scared that this might all be over before it's begun. My husband isn't allowed to attend the scan with me either due to lockdown measures and I am dreading the whole thing.

Chandelle Sun 14-Jun-20 07:19:22

Hello, Robin. I know this is going to be the scariest week of you life. The anxiety will tear you apart, just try and put it to the back of your mind. Treat it as your baby is still there. I went back and they found sac and fetal pole and yolk sac, I was over the moon. Turns out I was only 5 weeks + 2 when the original scanned me. Although I was sure I was 6 weeks already. My third scan I had at 6 weeks 2 day and they could see everything. Turns out apparently sperm can rest and not implant when you think. Your hcg levles are really good, as I know you carnt take them as a bad sign just because there so high. Now I'm 10weeks, and everythings fine. Please let me know how you get on, try and put it at the back of your mind, just so you can survive this awful week. I am here if you need to talk x

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