4 year old poos in nappy - do I bluff to his future school?

[1BunOldie]

Argh! Help! To my son I'm pretend I'm calm but he starts school in September and will only poo in a nappy. He will wee on a toilet happily (we have integrated child/adult seats). He hangs on until he's home from nursery to poo. He tells me he is scared that the poo will come out over the top of the loo and him. I am panicking because I understand that school can ask you defer if not potty trained. His future school have asked us to fill in forms; there is a question asking whether he is potty trained. Should I bluff or confess? We have tried everything that we know might work: bribery with sweets and a trip to Hamley's toy shop when he succeeds; nappy in a potty to catch the poo; explaining that the poo will not touch him. Advice gratefully received.

[Raaaaaah]

Be honest. It's not something to be ashamed off. Have you chatted to a health professional? I know that HV are often demonised on MN but they might offer some tips. Poor lad, he must get really uncomfortable hanging on. Please don't bluff. You will just feel on edge. You and DS just need a little support.

[LovingLola]

So what happens if you don't tell the truth and he goes to school and refuses to do a poo because he doesn't have a nappy....

[Wolfiefan]

You can't lie.
Have you spoken to the health visitor or any health professional?

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Don't lie. They will need to know in order to be prepared and possibly even revise their continence policy or whatever it's called.

There is still plenty of time til September he may crack it you never know.

But don't lie.

[Astro55]

We had this

Bin the nappies - tell him there aren't any more

Buy him a sticker book or toy ONLY when he's on the toilet

Show him the flush system - add blue dye - the pan holds exactly the same amount of water as the pan - so it can spill over - it's a myth

Sit with him and be patient.

[Flywheel]

This is very common (albeit with maybe slightly younger kids). Have you tried the book "poo goes to pooland" It was recommended on here and definitely helped with my ds. I'd be surprised if you didn't have this nailed by September. However you should probably be honest on the form. Is it a private school?

[Astro55]

Also I know none boy in nappies at school - BUT his parents are called to clean him if the staff refused - so be prepared to be called out of work

[Dangermouse1]

Have you tried ringing ERIC helpline for advice - found them very helpful. I'd also recommend an app called poo goes to pooland. I think an honest chat with school is in order but you have time before September so don't panic.

[avamiah]

September is a long way off, you have plenty of time.
Take away the nappies OP.
He will have a few accidents but in my opinion he will eventually use the toilet.

[Raaaaaah]

You might find that the school can offer advice or refer.

[Crumbs1]

Stop being cowardly and get him properly trained. Tell him no more nappies and that the loo is the place. No fuss, no persuasion just a reasonable expectation. If he can hold on until he's home then he's perfectly capable of using the loo.

[avamiah]

Crumbs1,
Straight to the point, but I have to agree with you.
There is a old saying,
You have to be Cruel to be kind.
Remove "Cruel"and replace it with "No More Nappies".

[RunTumMum]

I was in your position three years ago. My son was really nervous of pooing in the toilet and years of withholding caused constipation and a whole load of other issues. In the May he was still soiling several pairs of pants a day, I was really worried about school. We did tell them there were issues (I don't think they can exclude them) but my son came home from the first day of reception and announced he was going to poo on the loo now and that was it, years of issues over. Occasionally afterwards he would say to us that he felt he wanted to hold it in but was going to make himself go and he did.

I doubt at this age it's an issue of "just training him properly" usually by this point it's an issue of won't rather than can't and the issues that withholding can lead to are not to be taken lightly.

My advice would be to keep talking to him and explaining that at school he will need to poo in the loo and get him used to the idea that school marks that change.

[1BunOldie]

Thanks for the tips about ERIC and Poo goes to Pooland! I will be honest (best policy after all). This isn't about being cowardly at all. He totally panics about it so I don't want to turn it into a really ingrained fear which happened previously regarding baths. He has always resisted being pushed into something he fears. He desperately wants the trip to Hamleys but says he will go there when he grows up and starts crying and shaking when I place him on the toilet. He is actually just under 4 so will be quite young for his year. Time to call the professionals.

[Astro55]

What's your reaction to the crying?

Are you sympathetic or matter of fact?

[Shopkinsdoll]

My son was the exact same at that age. If he wanted a poo he insisted on putting on a nappy. It's as if he was scared to do it in the toilet. We ended up having to be tough with him. We told him the nappies were finished completely. He eventually started using the toilet. He will do it in the end. September is still a long way away. I put it down to being scared to let go on the toilet. I wouldn't force him though if he's really distraught.

[1BunOldie]

I will not be forcing him to use the toilet. I know that it will cause further problems. I am sympathetic with him when he is crying because he is in fear. He's pretty up for going to school so I'll explain gently that they will expect it and that might flick a switch deep down. Fortunately he hasn't suffered any constipation. I think I'll call the ERIC helpline this week. Thank you for the comments.

[Crumbs1]

He's only in fear because you let him be and have made it a thing.

My son used to be frightened of going down the death slide at a children's play centre. No reason to push (not literally) except it is good for us all to face our fears and realise we can overcome them and succeed. His friends pushed him, he squeaked but went back for a second go. Never looked back and grew in his own mind having done it.
Completely lost his fear of heights and has been bungee jumping in New Zealand- second highest in world.

Facing fears doesn't do long term harm. Mollycoddling and allow abnormal behaviour does.

[1BunOldie]

Crumbs1. Thanks but we'll have to leave it there because I haven't encouraged this in the least in my opinion.

[ToDuk]

Get him a book about how toilets work.
School can't do anything, and certainly can't tell you to defer his entry for a year.
Definitely don't force him because as you say that can lead to issues.
My dd was like this about wee. She wouldn't wee anywhere except in a nappy and if I told her we had no nappy (genuine at times like if we were out) she would hold it in. In fact she could wear pants to nursery and hold it in all day until she got home. Suddenly it just clicked with her and she started using the loo. Hope this happens really soon with your dc.

[Faithless12]

What about pooing in a potty? 1Bun, Crumbs has a point in as much as he has no incentive to face his fears if you pander to it. You need to be matter of fact about it, do you use the toilet in front of him?
I was scared of failing into the toilet at his age but that was the only option so I had to get on with it, I noticed that my adrenaline started when DS was perched on the toilet and had to calm myself down as it was a response to my old fear and I was projecting it on to him. He has no fear regarding the toilet and climbs all over the seat so he can squat but that's only because I noticed my own fear and didn't show him it.

[soapboxqueen]

September is still a long way off and you may find that he won't need to go during school. Many children (and adults) wait until they are at home no matter when 'getting home' actually is.

No they can't exclude if he is not fully potty trained or expect you to go up and clean him up. Individual staff can refuse but the school have to have a plan in place. He won't be the only one.

[SleepFreeZone]

OP I've only recently come out the other side of this with my 4 year old. There was a great thread that was running for a while with really helpful tips and no judgement.

What worked for us was

1. reading books about pooing. In our case the best reviewed ones on Amazon but the one he loved most was Liam has a Poo on the Toilet. I read that lots and lots and he really wanted to be like Liam
   
   
2. Poo goes to Pooland. Whilst that wasn't an immediate success it definitely planted a seed and it's referred to a lot now.
   
   
3. talking to the HV on the phone and talking it all round with a professional. They suggested getting the reward chart back out she starting to give stickers again.
   
   
4. I dug the reward chart back out!!! I have stickers for anything from washing hands, weeing without spilling, keeping a clean toilet etc etc. I found a picture of his favourite toy that he really really wanted, ordered it and dangled it like carrot if he pooed on the toilet. He resisted and resisted but I kept the toy in eyes view and eventually he decided to start pooing on the toilet. The first couple of times he did get himself upset because he was scared and I had to sit with him but within a week he was going everyday with no upset at all.
   
   Things that didn't work was me being cross, me confiscated things he loved because I was cross, me stopping him from going to a party because he refused to cooperate 🙄 You get the picture. Carrot every time, stick just makes them unhappy and makes for an extremely stressful household.