4 year old needs to be clean to go on pre school trip!

[mummysearle]

My 4 year old finishes pre school this summer. There is a leaver's trip to a zoo. If he's not guaranteed to have clean pants the whole day. He can't go!
We are making progress slowly and we have minimal issues taking him out, unless he's tired or not well!
We have tried a lot but he still has the odd accident. How do I stop these last few accidents so he doesn't miss out. Help! X

[SpeakNoWords]

That's ridiculous. You can't guarantee that all the children will definitely be dry/clean for the whole day! Is it not discriminatory as well?

[ReallyTired]

Surely the fact that reception is looming is a more serious issue than a one off trip to the zoo. The nursery needs to be working with you to get him clean and not threatening to punish a small child.

A school/ nursery cannot exclude from an activity on the grounds of disablity/ SEN. Surely a solution would be for you to accompany your child to the zoo so that you can change him. It would be a reasonable adjustment.

I imagine that a four year old who us not clean may well have special needs. He will only be toilet trained when he is developmentally ready. He us not choosing to crap his pants.

[biddy53]

This would contravene the Disability Discrimination Act 2010.

Education providers have an obligation to meet the needs of children with delayed self care in the same way as they would meet the individual needs of children with delayed language or any other kind of delayed development. Children should not be excluded from normal early years activities solely because of incontinence

Google Continence Guidance in the Early Years Foundation Stage for more information (sorry I can't do a link) and suggest that your pre-school do the same,

[mummysearle]

Thank you. The discrimination and exclusion is more upsetting than anything else. There have been constipation issues which are being resolved thru doctor and health visitor but we are progressing bit by bit. He's very focussed on his play and stubborn so trying to break that has taken time. The more we pressure the more he resists to try harder.
Have offered to go but police check system and not wanting to process additional checks has prevented that.
His brother had fears but was ready in time for school. Our friends four/five year olds still have occasional accidents so how can I guarantee? Very frustrating but keep trying.
Many thanks X

[ReallyTired]

Getting a DBS is not an insubmountable obsticle unless you have a criminal record. It usually takes 2 weeks for a DBS check and its free for volunteers to get a DBS check.

OFSTED expect children with additional needs to be included. Its up to the nursery to either pay an additional member of staff or to allow a DBS volunteer to come. Primary schools use parents with a DBS check to help out on outings so its not impossible. My impression is that the nursery cannot be arsed to meet their basic responsiblities.

In your position I would ask the nursery for their formal complaints proceedure. It is so WRONG for an SEN four year old to be punished for something beyond his control. (Yes, soiling is a special educational need). I would ask the nursery to guartenee that your child will be included in this outing. If the nursery tells you in writing that its not their policy to exclude incontinent children on outings then the next step is to make a formal complaint to OFSTED.

When is this outing? June/ July is a long time and there is a strong chance your child will stop soiling his pants.

[mummysearle]

I have a recent police check from being a lunch time supervisor but they said they would have to redo it themselves.
I agree. I find it discriminating and wrong. We have been trying to toilet train for a year and a half and not obvious constipation is part of the problem. Hopefully he will progress again for trip in May but the pressure is not welcome. We would like him drier by school starting in sept.
Slightly more frequent accidents at pre school than home. Every time he feels pressured, he regresses a bit!

[ReallyTired]

It's really quick for the nursery to a DBS if you have been checked before. My last DBS took 2 days.

Have the nursery threatened him with not being allowed on the trip if he keeps soiling?

[mummysearle]

My last one was quicker than expected.
I don't think they have threatened him but they asked if he had been clean during the holidays, as soon as we arrived so he did hear the conversation this time! Not had problem with pre school before so very disappointed.

[elfycat]

I'd be taking all the discriminatory arguments above into nursery, and then saying that you'll be contacting OFSTED about their lack of individual plans for continence, and going to the local paper, if they don't make the necessary arrangements.

DD2 had some problems with paying attention to her body's cues for poos until Xmas - a term into reception and after her 5th birthday. I was never made to feel that it was a huge problem, though it was usually an evening problem so rarely happened in nursery/school time.

I resolved this by giving her a small bag with 10 1ps in it. I pay her a penny for every poo in the toilet and take a penny away to help fund new underwear. She's quite a bit up so it was just a focus issue

[mummysearle]

Will see how it goes and whether need to complain.
Friends kids of similar age had accidents so finding it bit unfair to make it into a bigger issue!