Battle with nursery

[Jke86]

Hi hoping for some advice, my daughter will be 4 at the end of May... Completely toilet trained at home apart from the very very occasional accident, she goes to nursery 4 days a week and come home every time with wet/poo knickers! Sometimes only 1 accident but sometimes up to 4 a day. I'm getting so frustrated with them, I've checked that she can get up on their toilet which she can and I have explained that they have to prompt her as she tends to get engrossed with stuff at nursery. It seems they are not supervising the children in the bathroom, LO has been known to go into bathroom and pretend to go to toilet and then have an accident 5 mins later! Nursery staff are aware of this, it's taken us nearly 2 years to get LO to this point as she wasn't ready till nearly 2 and a half ( and I suspect it was too early then!) no development delays or issues now but she was 3 months premature. Her consultant is happy that this isn't to do with prematurity. I'm at my wits end as at home she asks to go to toilet in time etc. We do tend to prompt her often so maybe we're prompting too much? She starts school in September and I'm worried this will continue into school. I can't change nurserys as I've been struggling to pay full amount (didn't get pay rise I was assured when taking on new job and I'm under contract for another 8 months). please any help or advice would be great! Just hate seeing LO so embarrassed and upset when I pick her up!

[PotteringAlong]

I'm not sure how this is nurserys fault? If you prompt her all the time does she go to the toilet because she knows she needs to go or because you tell her to go? If it's the latter then you need to go back and rethink whether she really is toilet trained.

And I think 2.5 is young. You seem to be saying it as if she was very late to be toilet trained. Mine were nearly 3 and were not the oldest.

[SauvignonPlonker]

OP, coming at things from a different angle here. I'm the mum of a 29-week weeker & keep in touch with about a dozen NICU parents. ALL of the children have issues with toileting (they are 6/7 now). These issues include soiling, constipation, anal fissures, withholding.

My DS for example, will hold off at school until he gets home, often having staining in pants.

Many kids of his age don't like using the toilets at school, even the full term healthy ones. So they hold off, resulting in accidents.

Sorry that's not very helpful in terms of how to manage things for your DD, but I think it is a useful analogy for you.

[kippersyllabub]

Prompting isn't helpful. Potty training isn't something that you as a parent achieve but is completely dependent on your child. A toilet-trained 4yo is basically responsible for all their toileting except perhaps help with wiping.

I would suggest you stop the prompting at home and use a reward chart for each part of the day she's dry and clean. If stool-withholding is a problem then designate after breakfast or after tea as poo time, and establish a routine. Almost all children this age have very good bowel control: the problem is that the control is so good, they hold things in too long and that's what causes the accidents. Holding in stool can also result in wetting accidents.

But back to the question: it's not nursery's fault and I think you need to work with them to establish what's needed in preparing your ds for school

[Jesabel]

I would stop prompting her at home, up her fluid intake to give her some practice at recognising the signs and going herself.

One of mine doesn't like using nursery/school toilets so we have got into a routine where he does a poo at home every evening after tea.

Nursery are going to have a ratio of one adult to 8+ children, so practically they are not able to prompt and supervise each child individually.

[NickNacks]

Agree with pottering. Being toilet trained means recognising when you need to go, and go especially at 4 by yourself.

Of course all children have accidents once in awhile where they leave it too long because they are distracted but up to four times a day is not that. If you are constantly reminding her at home then she hasn't learnt this skill at home either, you're just doing it for her.

[Jke86]

When I say prompt I mean as in asking her if she needs to go, sometimes she says yes but most of time she will say no, we've tried rewards sticker charts etc but novelty wore off very quickly! I wondered whether it was possibility of not wanting to ask at nursery as they are so busy... They've normally got 3/4 members of staff to to 30+ children aged 3-5!

[Jke86]

Never done a forum thing before but amazed at the responses already! Should have done this years ago!

[kippersyllabub]

But that is prompting. This isn't a criticism - I did this with my first dc, but a recommendation: they're not toilet trained until they take themselves off to the loo without a "do you need a wee?" from an adult.

When you stop prompting, there will be accidents for a bit. But it's not pleasant wetting yourself and the time taken for your dd to undress, clean herself up and help you load her wet or dirty clothes in the washing machine will outweigh the inconvenience of her interrupting her play to go to the toilet.

[OddBoots]

If the staff are having to change her wet or soiled stuff that will be taking up a lot of their time. I am sure in that situation they will be doing their best to get her to go but if you say she is pretending to use the toilet then having an accident it must be very difficult.

[kippersyllabub]

www.amazon.co.uk/Constipation-Withholding-Your-Child-Soiling/dp/1843104911?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 Is a very helpful book if you think your dd may be deliberately be avoiding going to the toilet when she needs it.

[PotteringAlong]

I agree that that is prompting! Stop asking her and see if she just takes herself off. If not then that might give you an indication of the problem.
I know it's easier said than done