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Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

(1000 Posts)
waitinggirl Mon 15-Jun-09 08:01:12

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

Kayzr Mon 15-Jun-09 08:17:16

Great name WG!!

DS2 is in a real grump this morning. Think he might be teething.

Has anyone been to Paris?? We're going for my birthday next year, just wondering if anyone has any hotel suggestions or things we should do?

EffiePerine Mon 15-Jun-09 09:20:58


Kayz: I am shamed to admit I have never been to Paris blush. Am thinking of taking DH there for a New Years break if I can scrabble together some pennies.

Oops, DS2 muttering better go!

Veggiemummy Mon 15-Jun-09 09:58:44

Kayz have been to Paris a couple of times I love it. I love the galleries but also love just wandering around the city, into all it's little nooks and crannies. Whenever we have gone we get one of those weekend packages with the Eurostar that includes B&B accomodation. We usually get 3 star (when DH's work isn't paying we go cheap!) and it is quite good. Just when your choosing accomodation it is often cheaper the further from the center but if you are close to a Metro station you can anywhere pretty fast anyway. Are you taking the boys? If not an evening walk along the Seine is highly recommended.

Veggiemummy Mon 15-Jun-09 10:14:08

Oops had to run off to grumpy bum. WG I love the title, good use of the word embuggerance.

Lady what did DD think of the pineapple? I'm on the look out for foodstuffs I can carve to the shape of DS2's hand for a good hold and that he can chew on for more than a couple of minutes. At the moment they don't last long enough and he gets frustrated.

jumpjockey Mon 15-Jun-09 10:50:57

Hi all, hello new thread! Quick one before swimming lesson - just to say we've found that big bits of food are a lot easier for dd to hold than small ones - eg a slice of melon with skin on works much better than a little finger shaped bit without, that tends to slip out of her grasp. She also liked asparagus!

right, off to wake a sleeping baby last week we were 10 minutes late for a half hour lesson as we got 5 mins down the road and I realised I'd forgotten the bag with the swimming kit in it blush angry

LadyThompson Mon 15-Jun-09 10:59:13

Just a quickie - Veggie, she absolutely adored it. To this end, I might also try her with some mango.

artichokes Mon 15-Jun-09 13:29:49

Hi guys

DD2 has a tooth! A little tiny white tooth. It makes her grin so sweet.

Kayz - I have been to Paris twice and I can't think of a thing to tell you blush. The first time was millenium New Years and I can't remember a thing about the whole three day trip as there was too much alcohol involved. The second time was with my Mum and we had a lovely time wandering round the galleries and the shops but I can't remember the name of anything. It was lovely though. You will have a great time. And your plan about losing weight before TTC sounds a good one.

Trace - You were so brave to stand up to that man at Lou's school. I really admire you. I always freeze in those situations and then spend the rest of the day wishing I had been brave like you. Poor little child whose parents' behaved liek that in front of her and all her school friends. I hope she is OK.

Effie - I was looking at your pics on FB. DS2 really is a little Tibetan monk isn't he? I thought you were joking but he looks like that little boy who was chosen to be the Dalai Lama. Sooooo cute.

Bisou and NJAN - I am so admiring of your stay at home husbands. How do they find the social side of being a dad? All the toddler and baby groups I go to are all full of Mums. Last year a local Dad did start coming with his kids and most of the Mums just stared at him. I felt so bad for him and used to try and make a real effort to include him but TBH I think all the gossip did his head in and he soon started hanging out with his kids in PC World instead (seriously - he reckoned they loved it).

LadyT - glad you had a lovely week in London. How does it feel being back in the countryside after a week as a city family?

WG - so nice to hear you sounding more chipper.

All is well here. We had a very busy sociable weekend. I went to the tennis at Queens on Saturday and DH watched both girls all day. He tried DD2 on a bottle again for the first time in weeks and weeks and she gulped it all down without a blink shock. This is very good news as I go back to work in four weeks shock shock shock.

I am having a real sleep dilemma. DD2 is still waking a lot and taking most of her milk at night. I am exhausted and have been fretting about DH going away in two weeks time (he is abroad for ten days). I am only coping with the lack of sleep because he gets up with them in the morning and I lie-in 'til 8.45am every day. Anyway, DH's colleague knows a prominent sleep consultant and DH talked to them and they told him that they have 100% success rate at getting six month olds to sleep 12 hour nights and that it never takes them more than four nights to do this. They stay in the room with the baby and do a form of controlled crying. DH wants to get the consultant to train DD2 as he is worried about leaving me with all the night wakings. I LOVE the idea of a 12 hour night and so that tempts me to say yes but I do not love the idea of DD2 being subjected to controlled crying with a stranger. I think I will therefore say no but then I do know I will struggle and kick myself while DH is away. What would you all do?

Verso Mon 15-Jun-09 13:45:10

arti DD1 didn't sleep a decent amount for a whole year (ie waking multiple times a night, anything from 45 minutes to maximum 1hr 25 sleep at one go). I didn't get any respite either, as DH was very hands off and I certainly never got a lie-in angry! If someone (anyone!) had offered to sort her sleep for me after six months I would have jumped at the chance. Lack of sleep makes me very ill (hallucinations, mood swings etc - not good!). However, as I never had the option, I don't know ... I might have felt like you, faced with the reality of controlled crying. It's hard, isn't it?

Hmm. Thing is - how much is the lack of sleep affecting you? Is it affecting your relationship? You might be coping now, but how about in several months' time?

(You will all probably think I'm being harsh, but at 6 months + I think it's time the parents got some sleep. Relentless sleep deprivation is appalling.)

LUCKILY we never had to do it with DD2. She wakes up once a night and gets up at 4am some mornings shock but I'm ok with that as I'm getting six hours' sleep in a row every night.

Sorry - I haven't been much help have I? Just try to be mega-honest with yourself about how much the lack of sleep is affecting the family as a whole.

No news from me - final interview this morning so now just waiting to hear (took the afternoon OFF! grin)

pmk1 Mon 15-Jun-09 14:03:45

Hi all
Kayz I am off to Paris in a couple of weeks! Really looking forward to getting some photos of ds in front of the ET etc! I haven't been for years, but there's all the obvious attractions etc. I have been up the ET 3 times so not sure I'll be doing that again however... We are staying here so I will give you a full report. it is just 10 mins walk from Gare du nord station.
Arti sorry about your sleeping situation... I'm not sure what is the problem here either, however i'm not suffering as much as you I don't think... The other night he was back to sleeping right through, and then the following he woke again so back to square one. I will paint the picture - he has a couple of naps in the day usually around 1:15 each, but I can't keep him awake much after his 6pm feed. Sleeps solidly from 7pm-11pm ish when I wake him for a feed. get about 5 oz down him at a push, then happily back to sleep from about 1130-12 but will wake anywhere from 2-3am - I turn him over on his side and put the dummy back in and he usually sleeps till at least 630 or 7 but thismorning he was awake at 730 but muttering to himself and his sleep sheep until about 830!! he doesn't wake up and scream for food anymore... but his appetite has really decreased and I used to be able to get a 7 oz bottle down him 5 times a day, but since I've started the solids once a day he barel;y finishes 5 oz at a time and usually wants to string it out over about 3 hours! I think it's teething though.... As far as the controlled crying - not sure how i'd feel abou that either - i'd probably try it myself in fact that is what I think I will do tonight - wait a bit longer and see if he settles himself. I always jump up[ though as I know dh has to work .... I will try it tonight for sure. I might also try leaving him and cutting out that 11pm feed and maybe he'll take more in the daytime. his day naps have increased... I'm waffling and really haven't helped you have I.... in answer to your Q - don't think I'd want to do it with a stranger and I'd try doing it myself again first. But if you are feeling as bad as you say and nothing you are doing yourself is working - then 4 days, really isn't that long, and she won't hate you for it wink

Veggiemummy Mon 15-Jun-09 14:10:28

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh J pulled himself towards a toy this morning we thought it was a one off put he has just gotten himself a meter along the floor to another toy kind of caterpiller style (yes I know it's that far because I put the toy thereblush )

Arti I would listen to Verso weigh up your feelings about how your sleeping now etc against your worries about the CC with a stranger. Also maybe to get around the total stranger bit maybe you could at least meet this person. I don't think I could do it but I think with what Verso has been through she is the one to listen to.

artichokes Mon 15-Jun-09 14:16:26

Just to clarify regarding why I am considering using a stranger (although not a total stranger, I met her this morning and she comes highly recommended). We are considering using her as I know I can't do controlled crying myself. I can't bear to hear DD2 really upset and I know I would break and feed her in the end. Relenting after a spell of controlled crying is the worst thing to do as it tells the baby they can get the milk if they will just keep crying so the next night is even worse. Also the consultant reckons it is much faster if a stranger does it as they do not smell of milk and the baby knows their parents will eventually relent but does not know this of a stranger. Also if its a stranger then the baby does not feel upset with its parents, so according to the consultant it is more psychologically healthy.... Agghhh, I just do not know.

Indith Mon 15-Jun-09 14:58:03

I don't like Paris so I'm a bit useless grin We stayed here the summer before ds was born. It is a bit random but fine, not too expensive and in a great area as it is full of restaurants etc so is great in the evenings for a stroll. I just don't get on with the city though, too big and full of people and cars, I never quite felt like I could escape.

Arti you poor thing. I wouldn't, I don't think I could. Dd doesn't sleep and I spend every day on he verge of collapsing. I hate it, it is horrible, I have cried so much over it but I just don't know what to do. If you think you can stand it, and it will make things better then it is your call. If you do it though, I wouldn't go for 12 hours straight away, it is perfectly normal to need milk at night, I'd feed at around 10/10.30 when you go to bed then again around 4 or something.

Well I am back from France, it rained lots but have spent lots of time with my Mamie who is smitten with dd.

Dd is fab in many ways, giggling and playing, getting so cheeky, sitting well. She is never still, she wriggles all the time. She doesn't sleep though. It was getting horrible, she was just screaming no matter what I did until she could scream no more and gave up. She still woke a million times a night though. Then she just suddenly started sleeping on her back with someone next to her. Trouble is she wakes at least every 45min and is more difficult to settle once she has woken. Typically she goes down between 6.30 and 7 and wakes 3 times before I go to bed around 9.30 or 10 and after that I just don't know, she is up at least 6-8 times but it all blurs into one endless night. She has stopped waking fir the day at 5 but it is a mixed blessing as dh used to get up and let me sleep but now she spends from 4-7 on the verge of waking and only stays asleep in my arms and at the breast hmm

Last night and then again today for a nap (naps by the way now only last half an hour and she has 2 a day, I have lost my golden 2 hours when they both slept after lunch!) she went to sleep all by herself so I am just hoping she does that more until she finds she can do it at night. I think my next stept though are dummy cold turkey, the thoufht being that she wakes in light sleep as it has fallen out and, since she is waking roughly every sleep cycle trying the wake to sleep technique.

Not started weaning yet but madam is sitting nicely and when she had calpol last week for the never ending teething I noticed the tongue thrust was gone so I may lob something at her soon.

daisydora Mon 15-Jun-09 15:49:18

Hello ladies,

wg thanks for the new thread and love the title! Clever you for utilising veggie's 'embuggerance' suggestion!

Well, DS woke at midnight last night and by 3am, several nappy changes, feeds, Calpol, Anbesol, teething powder etc the little shitsausage was still wide awake. So as DH had consumed some cheerfulness I decided to take DS out for a drive which did get him back to sleep. But I returned home just after 3.30 am to find DD wide awake and screaming for mesad So I finally got to bed just after 4 and then DS was awake for the day at 5.30. So I am dead on my feet today. DH is at work till 8 tonight and I am already dreading the bedtime routine. DS has slept for the grand total of 20 mins today. He is just screaming all the time. I'm sure its his teeth. His little bum is so sore, he actually cries when I change his bum. Sudocrem & Bepanthen are not doing much. Anyone got any other suggetsions?? I don't have a clue what to do for himsad

Also had my smear at Gynae this morning to locate my'second cervix' Thankfully I saw the consultant from both my pregnancies so she knew my history and was able to find it quite easily! She is going to send a note to my GP on where to find it for next timehmm Makes my nether regions sound like an AA route planner is neededgrin

daisydora Mon 15-Jun-09 15:51:02

Apologies that post sounds very self centered! I do hope everyone is well, apologies for the lack of personals I've not caught up on the last thread properly and I'm so tired my eyes are stinging!

waitinggirl Mon 15-Jun-09 16:09:10

oh, daisy - that sounds dreadful. have you tried metanium for his bum? works like magic for us

daisydora Mon 15-Jun-09 16:15:12

wg thanks for that I'll get some just changed his bum now and he is screamingsad. Have got some big towels and he can roll on them till bathtime and hopefully a bit of air will help it too.

pmk1 Mon 15-Jun-09 16:19:01

oooh daisy poor fella. ds had it when he was really young, and I used Sudocrem, but I caked it on, and I mean caked and it fixed him up really fast.... try caking it it then leave nappy off...
WG metanium - is that yellow stuff? if so I've heard it's really good and my GP recommends it...

pmk1 Mon 15-Jun-09 16:20:37

such a lazy day here today - haven't been anywhere or done anything..... well I've "mothered" I spose grin

waitinggirl Mon 15-Jun-09 16:34:14

pmk - yes, it is yellow. we got it on prescription, b ut you can buy it over the counter as well

too exhausted to post much. back later

jumpjockey Mon 15-Jun-09 16:45:58

Hello all, thunder and lightning here and dd upstairs refusing to nap so it's a pretty tempestuous place! Have just left her in the cot, she's chuntering away fairly cheerily but will see what happens hmm

daisy, poor chap's bum, we used some 'method baby' nappy cream when she was having the runs, it's not a healing one but is quite cooling and soothing so it might give him a bit of a break from the ouchiness. So sorry you're having rough nights, doing it with two must be much harder.

indith you sound so chilled about the whole no sleep situation. When we were at a similar point I was on here ranting and raving and wearing the basket very thin blush Are you co-sleeping? as at least that would mean she could feed without you having to actually do very much, it has been my lifesaver during those tossing and turning hours of the morning (even if she has been pulling my boobs all over the place hmm)

arti it's a tough call, as you're going back to work soon that will make a big difference to how you feel about things. If you're definitely going to do cc then probably better with someone who's experienced in it and will be ruthless (in a good way), rather than you who would find it much much more difficult, as you say it's got to be done properly otherwise dd will only cry longer and harder the next time. 4 days seems pretty swift and efficient, so if it works, great and you've got your routine sorted ready for back to work.

trace - I loved your wise words about just accepting the situation with P while on mat leave. We are their mums and we're lucky enough to have this time to be mums without having to go straight back to work down the mill/mine/whatever and they're not trying to torment us, even if it often feels that way. And go you for confronting the rowing couple! That's just not on. Any improvement with the mouth ulcers? they're horrid things and make life so unpleasant.

bisou you said a while back that you were working on an opera written specially for your company - who's it by? Anyone we'd have heard of?

olipop and nolda and pingu and sybil good to see you all

zj really glad you had a good night, makes up for the exhausting days

kayz how exciting about your friend! I saw your AIBU thread about her needing to just do a test, what a fab wedding pressie Paris - we stayed overnight in a hotel near Gare de Lyon on our last trip to France as we were getting the train down south, it was pretty cheap but there was so much going on in the area so we didn't need to go any closer to the centre, lots of restaurants and walking by the river etc.

veggie glad to hear you're making the most of your assets wink

Hooray for LadyT and arti for the new teeth grin grin

verso hope you had a good interview, they're being very thorough!! Fingers crossed for you very hard

well we're in a funny situation at the mo. DD has been napping pretty well at the weekends, we put her down and she'll often go for an hour and a half if she's been boobed off to sleep, but now refuses to sleep in the sling or pushchair. This is a total turnaround from before! and also means that if I want her to sleep in the day, we have to stay at home. And if she does get in a nap from say 9.30 to 11, that goes right through the time that all the mum and baby things are on hmm Why is everything at 10.30? Surely babies are all going to be wanting a sleep or a feed around then or just after, so if you go out and meet other mums, the rest of the day is embuggered

And her night time sleep, end of last week she had two v crappy days of no naps and went to sleep on the first at 6, we put her to bed at 7 on the second (usual bedtime has been lights out at 8), and both times she slept til 4am [exploding boobs] shock shock then I went in to feed her, put her back in the cot and she played around for a bit then went back to sleep til about 7. shock shockshock so last night we deliberately put her to bed at 7 again and another remarkable night, first waking at 4. It seems that she really does sleep better without us there to disturb her, which means no more co-sleeping Though we'll have to see what happens when we try to move her into her own room, at the moment she's still in the crib next to our bed and we're banished to the spare room!

humph. Chuntering has turned into crying. Do I boob her to sleep (having hardly napped so far, this being an 'out of the house' day) and then have trouble getting her to bed, or get her up again and deal with crotchety baby for a couple of hours til bedtime? The best thing I read on this subject just said the best way to avoid this situation is to be more attentive to your baby's signals and get them to have a nap as soon as they are tired, so you don't end up with them napping too close to bedtime". Because it's that easy... hmm

lal07 Mon 15-Jun-09 17:53:28

Quick wave, and bookmarking. Sorry have been so absent recently...have been lurking though. And you cheer me up. A lot. All a bit full on at the moment. DS is a sick...and DH working v hard. Ho hum. Will try to post more later smile

Indith Mon 15-Jun-09 18:10:22

Chilled?! Ha! I vary between shrugging and saying that it will happen one day and ranting and raving at dh that she can't sleep, doesn't know how and we need to do something to sort it out. We are still co-sleeping so that is something, trouble is that during her unsettled bit I am on full alert and really can't sleep.

Now, I need help of a nice kind what shall I have? Last Christmas dh said for my present I could have a spa treatment, never having been to a spa I have no idea what to get but I want to cash in my present!

LadyThompson Mon 15-Jun-09 19:00:25

Did someone say spa treatment?

<rises up from the deep like Nessie>

You are far too young to be fretting about your face so I would say perhaps not a facial; I don't personally find a manicure or pedicure all that relaxing so particularly if you are sleep deprived I would definitely suggest a massage - either full body or scalp, neck and shoulder. So relaxing. Massages have made me feel human many a time! I had a hot stone massage last time and it was a bit gentle for me - others may think differently. Lucky you, though!

I wish I could get all of you a massage.

Anyway, more later. Kayz, I have got my thinking cap on about Paris.

Veggiemummy Mon 15-Jun-09 19:06:05

Just popping in quickly have had a lovely afternoon wandering in town, DS & DH got their hair cut, DS1 looks so cute because the hairdresser spiked his hair up with gel. However, he also looks so grown up and with DS2 starting to move himself about I'm suddenly a bit meloncholy because my boys are growing up, and can both move away from me now. I'm so proud of them both they are such lovely little people and I love their little independent streaks but I also am sad that one day they won't need me anymore.

Anyhoo enough of that rot. DH also went to the GP this afternoon because of erm... an aching in his erm... two veg. We were a little worried but the GP thinks it could be either a low grade infection or from running without adequate support. So he is going to buy some supportive undies. Sexy.

We also bought a couple of good quality webcams. DH is away now until Sunday night, then he is with us one night and then away in Wales for a week. So he is going to set up the webcams on his and my laptop so he can skype DS1 each night and read him a bedtime story in he room and they can see each other. Also as DS2 is moving about we are sad that DH will miss stuff so this way DS2 can perform any new tricks for his daddy via the WWW!!!!

Indith I have downloaded you link but am going to need some time to puruse it, I am quite a believer in the spa experience so will give you my opinion of what's on offer. Just a couple of questions? Do you like massages, do you feel you would want a facial (bearing in mind they will then try to sell you face stuff), and this is more of a statement than a question, you must have a peadicure!!! Oh and what are your thoughts on hot treatments, like saunas and steam rooms, this will only have significance if they have a risual though.

Mmm wasn't much of a pop in was it blush

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