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April 2011 - We understand no but we choose to ignore it.

(993 Posts)
ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Tue 18-Jun-13 14:02:40

Welcome Aprilites smile

13Stitches Fri 13-Jun-14 22:56:34

F was a first go-er. No second to test the trend on though!

F is very good at picking up the thread of a story and will finish the sentences. From memory though.

He's started playing Endless Reader on iPad though, and is starting to recognise words after only a couple of days.

Not reading though.

My nephew can spell, add and subtract and write his name (apparently) and is also 3. (But he can't hold a pen, and F can, so there! wink)

Daisy17 Mon 16-Jun-14 14:57:38

S is beginning to read, yes - his uncle gave him a toy bus when he was nearly two that says the letters and their sounds and he taught himself reallly and has know his letters for ages. And he's beginning to recognise words like Stop in out of context places. He can sometimes sound out 3 letter words too. It is a bit surprising because like you we've not done any formal learning with him, but I was an early reader so I think he's just got that sort of brain. Pants at drawing!!!! wink

Daisy17 Mon 16-Jun-14 14:58:56

Oh and I encourage it by pointing out words in books I think he might recognise or gettting him to try sounding out if he asks me what a word says. But not doing flash cards or anything.

13Stitches Mon 16-Jun-14 17:58:29

I've been channeling supernanny again.

We have a hitting/spitting/screaming/defiant horror of a child. He's getting much worse (just as I thought he was getting better.

I don't understand why he has to react so heinously to everything. I get this from the kids at school, and then again with him at home. How can I make sure we don't have this for the next 15 years?

(Already doing time out, just resurrected the reward chart for 'good' behaviour)

schlafenfreude Mon 16-Jun-14 20:50:04

We do Montessori style 'come and find me when you can be nice'. Sometimes it works quickly and sometimes he will stay away but he is learning that anti-social behaviour results in withdrawal of attention until he decides he's going to be nice.

M has lost his latch. I'm gutted sad No more BF for us sad Was I the last April BFer left standing?

TwentiethCenturyGirl Mon 16-Jun-14 22:27:46

Wow - I didn't realise you'd been tandem feeding. How did you find it? Feeding DD1 seems like a lifetime ago - think I stopped in June or July 2012. Planning to feed DD2 for a year or so too. Don't think I'll have the stamina to go any further!

13 - I have no advice BT want to reassure you that you're not alone. DD's tantrums are spectacularly awful. We're also using a reward chart, time out and trying to go down the positive praise route so that she gets attention for good behaviour rather than bad. It's bloody hard work though isn't it...

13Stitches Tue 17-Jun-14 19:46:56

He's just slapped my face. I'm so furious. Where does a 3 year old learn to be so defiant and vile?

He slapped me, and when I shouted he just laughed at me.

No one's ever slapped me before - now my own child has. Oh, no, my grandmother did when her Alzheimer's was getting bad. I remember now. Same cheek, about 15 years ago.

What the fuck do I do now? I've left him having time out on the landing.

13Stitches Tue 17-Jun-14 19:55:25

How have we ended up with such a horror of a child? All my theories of poorly behaved children being the result of poor parenting are unravelling as his behaviour gets worse.

We use time out consistently. We explain why bad behaviour is unacceptable. We're using a reward chart to encourage good behaviour and highlight poor, but not time out level behaviour.

And yet he hits, completely ignores instructions (earlier he looked me in the eye while sprinkling rice on the floor as I repeated "STOP" to him), screams and then laughs in my face when I tell him off.

DH is dealing with him. What do I do? I don't even want to see him right now. (Yet I feel guilty for that)

13Stitches Tue 17-Jun-14 20:08:17

He came down and apologised, but I told him it was a horrible thing to do. He hurt my face and made me very sad. I didn't say it was ok, and I didn't give him a cuddle or anything. I'm not ready to forgive him for one, and I want him to realise how terrible it is.

Have I been too harsh? Too soft? He's gone back up to bed now - he's quiet.

Daisy17 Tue 17-Jun-14 21:14:55

Oh 13, I have no wise words, but lots of hugs. I think some children are just like this. My brother was, I think, and you wouldn't know it now, he's a pillar of society! thanks wine thanks thanks And S is very defiant at times and is going through a kicking phase. He still bites sometimes too and tells us to stop talking because he doesn't like our voices etc. I would be as livid as you are with the laughing though, much sympathy.

GreenFirefly Tue 17-Jun-14 22:16:55

I've no wise words either. It winds me up something chronic when M just smirks at me when I tell her off.

I'm having my last few days off - it's now annual leave rather than maternity. A is in nursery tomorrow morning as well as M so I am child free!

13Stitches Tue 17-Jun-14 22:52:22

Thanks both. I didn't know what to do earlier. I just don't know what to do with him in general. Nothing seems to work.

That's reassuring to hear about your brother, Daisy.

Enjoy your last few days off, Green!

13Stitches Wed 18-Jun-14 07:29:44

And it continues. We need to leave but we're already on the 2nd time out this morning: first he kicked me, and when I've just gone to speak to him he spat in my face.

I'm so furious. I'm at the point where I can see how easy it would be to hit a small child. At least he'd get the point.

(I haven't hit him, I don't plan on hitting him either, but I can see how easy it would be at this point).

ecuse Wed 18-Jun-14 15:42:27

Oh god I can totally see how one could hit a child. (ditto haven't, won't etc but christ it's tempting sometimes!)

Sorry you're having a shit time of it. I have absolutely nothing constructive to say, really, just that as far as I can tell it's totally normal threenager boundary testing. That sort of thing is SOOO much easier to say than to cope with directly, though sad

ecuse Wed 18-Jun-14 15:44:00

PS - courtesy of a birthday present book, Jo can now officially read the words 'poo' and 'bum'. Not much else though grin

TwentiethCenturyGirl Thu 19-Jun-14 08:47:16

Two of the pre-school essentials I'm sure ecuse grin

DD1 can't read. She know a lot of the alphabet and can recognise and write her name but that's about it. We read to her a lot though, so am sure that reading will come in time when she starts school.

I'm incredibly short tempered and can also see how easy it would be. Again, I haven't and won't but have had to walk away sometimes when I've lost my rag. Personally I'm finding this a really difficult age. DD is really testing (she's a mini me personality wise - see comments above about my temper!) and goes from being a joy to a horror in about 30 seconds.

What's DS like at nursery/childminder 13? DD is a meek and mild as you like apparently. She obviously saves all her 'special' horrid behaviour for us!

schlafenfreude Thu 19-Jun-14 18:31:36

Gosh 13 you really are having a tough time sad I don't really have any wise words but I know what you mean about hitting - it's easy to see how you can go down that road.

Have you tried going the other way completely? Stopping the time out and the reward chart etc? I can't remember where I saw it but there was a great article about some children hot responding to those techniques because they've understood cost/benefit and taking the time out is worth it.

13Stitches Fri 20-Jun-14 19:18:14

Thanks for the advice & sympathy folks.

He's been ok for a couple of days, but we've just had another episode spiralling out of control. After misbehaving beyond time out he ended up at 'bed with no story'. I was completely calm this time. He tried to hit me while I got him changed, so I had to hold his arms down. (Maybe I should have just left him in his room to calm down and change him later?) He then started really hawking up and spitting on his bedroom floor (at least it's not at me this time). I obviously told him this was disgusting and put him into bed and shut the door behind me. I sat outside his room while he calmed down (optimistic?). He twice opened his door and walloped me. Each time, without thinking I pushed him away first, and he fell onto the ground. I'm not happy that I pushed him, but I reacted instinctively, and with the benefit of long arms. If I could have stopped myself, he'd have succeeded in hitting me in the face again. (I must learn not to sit/kneel within his reach).

For info, he doesn't do this with the childminder or at nursery, it's reserved for home, and mostly for me.

Schlafen, can you suggest what we should do instead? I need him to know that this behaviour is unacceptable, and also that if he's asked to do something (reasonable requests of a 3 year old - put your shoes on, stop throwing those noodles on the floor) he needs to do it without turning into devil-child.

Daisy17 Sun 22-Jun-14 13:33:23

Don't know, 13. I do what Schlaf said upthread, the Montessori approach of walking away and refusing to get pulled in, but very hard in the morning when you need to get somewhere etc. wine

Anyone got any ideas on how to deal with negative ones?! Everything's no, even re doing nice things like going to the park, seeing friends. It makes family days out a bit frustrating and limiting, and DP got really morose today at outdoor Lido when S would only paddle and after 10mins wanted to go home. I sort of sympathise a bit with both of them! Feel really upset by it today. Is it a phase?!

Doesn't help that I caved in and tested yesterday and got a BFN. Am trying to focus on it being too early but now have fatalistic feeling of it telling the truth.


GreenFirefly Sun 22-Jun-14 13:56:36

Oh dear. Seems we all have some sort of problem.
Ours seems to be potty training (mainly). She just won't tell us when she want to wee or poo, or when she's done it for that matter. We tried no nappy friday afternoon and yesterday. Thankfully it's good drying weather as we've had nothing in the potty or toilet, just lots more washing. She didn't wee at all yesterday and I started worrying about UTIs so she's back in pull ups today.
We've also go issues with new shoes. Hates the idea. Moving house was nothing in comparison! confused

It's been a pooey (literally) weekend for us as baby A's nappy leaked all over the place this morning too....

13Stitches Sun 22-Jun-14 18:57:04

Oh dear, a pooey weekend does not sound like fun.

It's interesting (can I say nice?) to see that they've all got their particular issues. It does sometimes feel like we've got a particularly nightmarish boy, but I can see they've all got their particular traits.

I have no advice for either! F does get a bit of the "No!"s sometimes, but it's always part of a bugger tantrum.

Daisy17 Mon 23-Jun-14 22:15:47

13 - I've been reflecting a lot on your posts this week (insomnia!) and have a few thoughts - please tell me to stick my armchair psychology if it's not helpful! But just thought I'd share....

As a fellow teacher, I know I can find myself being painfully aware of my son's behaviour and how it shows me up in a way that is very linked to my job and the fact that I feel I should know how to raise a polite child and should know how to do discipline.

In your posts you say that you are really worried that unless you nip this in the bud now then he's going to turn into one of those awful oiks you spend your lunchtime having to deal with at school. You deal with awful teenagers and their abuse all day, and worry about how you are dealing with them, and then come home to the same, and worry about it there too. I wonder if you are, completely understandably, linking the two things together too much. Lots of 3 year olds are "violent" towards their parents, S is a real kicker and thrower. It's the spitting that particularly upsets you. In a teenager that IS vile and disgusting. But in a three year old it's not nice but it isn't quite the same perhaps? I bet you he does it so much because it makes you so livid. And maybe you're livid because in your head it's like one of your pupils doing it and you feel panicked? Is there anyway you can erase this haunting image of your future 13 year old son spitting at you and remain UBERcalm when your 3 year old does it, just saying that's not nice darling in a Joyce Grenfell way and/or calmly taking toys away etc until he gives up because it gets no response?

Ignore me if this is rubbish, I just know that sometimes I feel myself really going for S and letting things escalate and get really confrontational (again this is verbal, but boy do I want to lash out physically, and I've certainly pushed him loads of times blush and shouted at him) because I'm feeling out of control and I'm panicking about it and the panic is exacerbated because I'm a teacher and I Should Be In Control of a three year old. God dammit!!!

Daisy17 Mon 23-Jun-14 22:18:07

Disclaimer - pushed him loads of times sounds awful!! That sort of self-extrication from flailing limbs sort of pushing. Gah! blush

13Stitches Mon 23-Jun-14 22:26:31

You've deffo hit the nail on the head there Daisy!

I'd worked a lot of that our myself, but your clarity really helps. I have been working on the calm, and not letting it bother me, and he has settled in the last few days (hope I haven't jinxed it!).

I'm having a tough time with behaviour at work at the moment too (not just me, it's a school wide problem unless you're management ), so feeling stressed from work and then getting the same behaviour at home has been sending me to the brink.

He's been on an unspoken TV ban since sometime last week, which might be helping to sort him out.

The CM has reassured me that all her 3 year olds are similar to some extent. Which helps.

The worst of it is the feeling that we're doing something terribly wrong. I just want to know that this is normal 3 year old behaviour, and we haven't got some kind of monster.

Daisy17 Tue 24-Jun-14 09:28:57

Glad it helped! There's an active thread in Behaviour about whether someone's 2.5 year old is normal, quite helpful.....?

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