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March 2013- here we go....

(984 Posts)
Oodsigma Sun 10-Mar-13 09:37:39

Welcome old & new to the other side!

I'll start with a stats list!

Ood -ds 7/3/13, dc4! Elcs

If anyone wants to add any more details feel free!

eigmum Sun 21-Apr-13 22:06:36

Leni it's good to write it down sometimes. I feel for you. Hopefully OH will understand. Take it from a second timer, this bit to 12 weeks i s by far the hardest bit of parenting from a stamina perspective. My three year old is a breeze in comparison. In 2 months time things and transport etc will be easier, even enjoyable fr you AND little one. Right now Little one needs milk, sleep and cuddles. That's it. In a few weeks time he or she will start to take an interest in the world, stuff etc. plenty of time for visits then ... Try and get oh to see that.

eigmum Sun 21-Apr-13 22:09:08

Well done plonko! Big glass of wine for you!

pudtat Mon 22-Apr-13 02:30:56

Suddenly have worlds hungriest baby ... Poss growth spurt - is 5 weeks usually one of those?

WingDefence Mon 22-Apr-13 04:14:17

Wow Plonko and Leni I really feel for you.

Leni, your situation feels like an AIBU where everyone would tell you your OH is being selfish and offer much better advice than I can. Essentially though I would tell him you're not going anywhere until you and baby are 100% well and fit to travel. And as for completely undermining you to his parents... angry He really needs to get his priorities sorted out.

DD went from a short feed at 10 after a nap till 3:30. She was very noisy though and I did wake up a few times to look at the clock before then. I can't begrudge her all the time she spends attached to me in the daytime if it gives us sleep overnight!

Registering her at 11 this morning. DH can't believe that we don't need to take any proof of her birth/existence with us... In fact as we're married one of us could just go along and make up a baby?! confused

Right I think she's zonked out. Hopefully she won't wake again till a recognisable morning time now...

StormyBrid Mon 22-Apr-13 08:28:56

Sorry plonko, would've tried to give emotional support as well as practical advice, but I was in a bit of a rush. Glad he fell asleep in the end. You will feel horribly mean leaving him, but in the long run it's worth it, and it's not like he'll remember it when he's older and hate you forever for it. If your partner doesn't want to persist, ask him what he'd try instead - has he actually got any better ideas? Tell him, it feels dreadful for a few days but the baby will soon get the hang of going to bed and to sleep, and he'll realise it was totally worth it. Oh, and don't think of it as "crying himself to sleep". Think of it as "he's having a bit of a cry, and soon he'll calm himself down and go to sleep".

Our first night it was about an hour before she finally stopped crying periodically; we're down to about forty minutes now, and much shorter bursts of crying too, so it does get easier. And once she's fallen asleep she's staying asleep for a good six hours (with dream feed) - ask him if that sounds appealing!

leni that's a good suggestion from eig. Try and spin it to OH that a visit in a few weeks will be far more enjoyable because baby will be much more awake and alert and maybe smiling too.

I wish nappies would last a solid twelve hours, so we didn't have to change it at the 2am feed. If we managed the 10pm and the 2am as dream feeds, would she sleep until morning? Unfortunately I suspect if we experiment with this she'll end up utterly soggy by 7am.

leniwhite Mon 22-Apr-13 08:53:34

Wing - we had a piece of paper from the hospital we had to take to register but I thought the same!

OH made another revelation after we talked - MIL also has anxiety and panic attacks and can't even go to the supermarket alone. I literally had no idea any of this was going on! They have sheep so his dad can't come up with her. As much as i feel for her, i can't help but wish i didn't always have to stress myself out to accommodate other people's issues... I've suggested we go down just for the day by train or wait a couple of weeks like you all said, which would definitely make sense. No decisions made yet but I've made my point that he's handled it all badly and he should have just told me there were other reasons why they wouldn't come to us. I shouldn't have to feel guilty for not wanting to disturb what small routine I have with DS when I'm not the one with the issue, especially when OH makes such a big deal about my DF being annoying - he was really helpful when he came here! Meanwhile OH didn't write down the time of his GP appt today so he's not going to bother going to sort out his own OCD and anxiety as promised. I give up confused

Lots of puking going on here, still torn between giving up BFing. From reading your CIO trials I'm glad we're not even close to that stage shockgiving him half and half breastmilk and thick formula and it seems to go down better with less pain. That way at least he gets the benefits of BF without the lactose issue, or whatever it is that makes him require exorcism after every feed!

eigmum Mon 22-Apr-13 09:20:41

We had quite a morning here. Dd hadn't done a poo in three days and was straining so much a huge poo came out one end and she vomited the entire feed over her, me the sofa and the wall, so I can safely say left breast as a lot of milk! However once we cleaned up she was hungry! The issue is bf is once its gone it's gone, so an hour later after comfort nursing she is having a power nap. Off to buy aptimil today. Need to give combo feeding a try as 100 per cent breast is making me miserable.

eigmum Mon 22-Apr-13 09:26:33

Plonko, stormy is right, you are letting them cry and express there emotions not making them cry. I did the same thing with my three year old and he s a apply child who sleps well and is very emotionally secure ( the last bit was on his school report.) you are teaching them to self settle and it's a key life skill. If litte one is learning to ride a bike and falls off and crys, dh will want to put him back on so he can learn. This s much the same thing. My next door neighbor couldn't do it and still as a three year old up twice in the night for comfort. With her 1 year old she did a little ( three nights max it took) cc and he sleeps through and has done frm 6 months. The other bit people don't tell you is the difference when they get ill. Children who can self settle and will want sleep recover quicker. That's what swung it for my neighbor. Our litte ones would both get a cold but my child was better rested so recovered better. Some food for thought for your oh!

eigmum Mon 22-Apr-13 09:29:55

Pundat, probably is. Your little one is a bit smaller than average so may to catching up with an early 6 week growth spurt. Make the most of it and feed feed feed!

plonko Mon 22-Apr-13 10:47:40

Thanks for all the advice smile ill have a good read about cc today and discuss it with OH later. We're both keen on having a baby that can self settle and sleep for a good stretch at nighttime. Eig that's such a good point about sleeping off any illnesses too! Yes, that alone is a reason to do it. I hope your LO feels more comfortable now, I remember the frustration of DS puking after a boob feed, I found it so stressful. Haven't looked back since starting formula full time.

Leni your train or wait suggestion seems perfectly reasonable to me. It's not fair that he doesn't give you the full story so you end up looking like the bad one. Well at least there's a whole group of people on here who know you're doing the right thing.

Yes Stormy why can't nappies go the distance?! George woke for a bottle just a DP got in at 1.30 am. DP v slow to give feed but insisted on it cos he missed the baby. DS fell asleep on bottle, DP didn't do a nappy change so muggins here was up at 5.30 am wiping up wee and getting the next bottle ready early, all because of a soggy bum. Thankfully DP apologised but I still could wring his skinny neck!

StormyBrid Mon 22-Apr-13 11:27:03

Think we might be having a growth spurt here. Yesterday she drank a whole 24 ounces! And today all she wants to do is sleep. Napped for a full two hours 8-10 this morning, and she was asleep when I went to get her up. Just about managed to keep her awake until 11.15, and then she was falling asleep despite the hiccups, so I gave up and put her down for the next nap. I just hope she doesn't resist sleep tonight because of it.

plonko our rule for night time nappies is she needs one change, and whether it's at 10pm or 2am is decided by when she wakes up. If she sleeps through the 10pm then she gets changed at 2am, and it does wake her a bit but she goes back to sleep. And the man does both those feeds at the moment so it's all up to him. Unless there's poo, of course - poo means a change even if she hasn't woken up.

plonko Mon 22-Apr-13 12:04:35

I agree Stormy, one change a night is definitely necessary. And it happens when I do it, but DP is a bit daft. He didn't want to make the baby cry. Oh and definitely sounds like a growth spurt. If it is I doubt she'll have the energy to resist sleep later.

Have just gone through the basics of controlled crying with him. No opinion apparently, but I think this'll change when George cries on and off for an hour tonight!

StormyBrid Mon 22-Apr-13 12:12:40

Might be an idea to have a think about distractions for this evening, plonko. I go for smokes because then I can't hear the crying very well at all. Small bits of housework would do too - if you're focusing on the washing up then it's a useful way of marking time without having your full attention on the crying. Or hoovering, that could work, particularly as it makes noise. Good luck!

Night time nappies are a bit easier now we've got the swaddle pod thing. It zips both ways, so we can keep her arms contained and there's less flapping to really get her woken up. And yes, she cries, but she goes straight back to sleep - it's just her way of complaining that she's being disturbed. Swaddle pod also stops her from hitting herself in the face. Bonus! grin

Rainbowbabyhope Mon 22-Apr-13 12:24:01

plonko good to remember that there are also lots of other methods to teach a baby to self settle as well as controlled crying. The reason controlled crying is so tough to do at this stage is that newborn have absolutely no concept of cause and effect or the passage of time and they have not yet learnt about object permenance. When you leave the room you cease to exist to them and that must be quite odd to someone who has been continuously cuddled in the womb for 9 months. They only cry for a reason and controlled crying can work because you are teaching your baby that crying as a communication method will not work for getting cuddles and contact at night. It works really well for some babies but not all and there are many other ways to explore too.

With our little one we cuddled to sleep for the first two weeks, then sat next to her with our hand on her chest until she slept for the next two weeks and then stayed in the room going about our business with ocassional touching for reassurance for the next couple of weeks. Now we can put her down and leave the room without her crying and she will drop off by herself although one of us usually stays for 5-10 minutes so she has that continuity utill she learns object permenance and we will stroke ,touch and talk to her if she seems unsettled. I think this has taught her that her needs will alwys be met when she expresses herself by crying so ensuring that she hasn't learnt to cry for no reason. I also always look at her in the eyes if she opens them at night and this does not seem to stir her - quite the opposite in fact!

StormyBrid Mon 22-Apr-13 12:59:02

"crying as a communication method will not work for getting cuddles and contact at night" - spot on. This is part of why we're doing it - we want her learning that night's for sleeping, not for cuddles. As for crying for no reason, I'm not sure any baby does that. There's always a reason, it's just sometimes really hard to work out what!

I think the main reason we get crying at bedtime is by then she's ready for a good long sleep, but she's not been up for quite so long, as she has a catnap sometime between five and six. Naps she goes down fine for, with barely a squeak usually, but she's normally been up for an hour and a half then.

Right, milk time, then health visitor time. Will hopefully finally get her weighed for the first time since day 10!

backwardpossom Mon 22-Apr-13 13:06:06

Controlled crying? At this age? Even Gina Ford, she who must be obeyed <eye roll> doesn't recommend it before 6 months. Your babies want cuddled. What is so wrong about that? Please, cuddle your babies to sleep. You're not creating bad habits, they are tiny babies who want to be close to their mummies like they have been for the last 9 months in the womb. There is a theory that babies have a fourth trimester, having read about it, it makes a lot of sense. DS was much easier after 12 weeks.

Controlled crying at this age does not teach your baby how to sleep. All it does is make them exhausted so they pass out from tiredness. It will, however, raise cortisol levels in their brain and that is linked to mental health problems. Surely better to teach them that mummy is always there for them, so that when they're older they are secure in the knowledge that you will be there for them if they need you?

Sorry, I'm on my soapbox a bit, and I'm normally an each to their own kind of person when it comes to parenting. But I really think it's irresponsible to advocate controlled crying/crying it out on babies as young as ours.

<sheepishly leaves thread>

sundaesundae Mon 22-Apr-13 13:12:21

What she said, with bells on. Well put backwards and rainbow too.

Rainbowbabyhope Mon 22-Apr-13 13:22:32

backward totally with you on the forth trimester theory - its exactly how we are viewing this phase in DD development. It seems to be spot on and we appear to have a very calm and contented baby as a result who sleeps really well especially as we have really sorted the breastfeeding. She rarely full on cries anymore as I have developed a real sense of her cues for various things unless she has a bad tummy after eating too quickly! We cuddle her as much as we can and this has not translated into a sleepless baby at all.

eigmum Mon 22-Apr-13 14:00:32

Rainbow, agree, if what you did worked for me and dd I would have done it and been very happy. After 10 days of carrying around, shhhing, holding her hand we went from 2 hours of crying in the evening to 5! Clearly not as good at the calming as others. Now the hv said colic and we could have gone down the coilef, infacol route ec but we decided to do all we could, feed as much as possible,nice bath, swaddle and then leave her to cry it out. Took 10 mins and she settled herself. Haven't had a cry at nap time since and finally got a baby who woke up smiling. If there was something I could have done to get there ( ie a baby who isn't overtired) without leaving her to cry for a bit I would have done. Same with my son. Not saying its the only way. Personally i think leaving them to cry later when they know you are leaving them to cry ( ie when they are older) is worse but we all have to do what we think is best for our little one. Everyone wants a happy baby and no one wants there baby to cry. Parenting is all about doing the best you can in your situation. Won't be the same for everyone. Interesting to hear what has worked for others and passing on what has worked for me. Not wanting to cause a problem. Hope your babies are doing well . Nice to see some old faces are still around!

eigmum Mon 22-Apr-13 14:03:46

Anyway she is stirring from her nap ( has she been reading Gina in her sleep!) so better go feed.

plonko Mon 22-Apr-13 14:26:03


StormyBrid Mon 22-Apr-13 14:49:47

backward don't go leaving the thread? We're all just doing what works for us, and that's not going to be the same for everyone. Mine's like eig's, and won't be cuddled to sleep. She just gets progressively tireder and grumpier. I tried holding her, I tried shushing her, I tried keeping a hand on her so she'd know I was there - none of which worked, because she wasn't crying for comfort, she was crying because she was tired.

Anyway, in other news, we have just had a diagnosis of oral thrush from the health visitor, which may explain the fussy feeds. Gaining weight well though!

eigmum Mon 22-Apr-13 15:00:12

How do u know if they have thrush? Mine's tongue looks white all the time!

StormyBrid Mon 22-Apr-13 15:01:39

So does mine's, thanks to the milk! She's got a couple of little white patches on the inside of her bottom lip which are always there and always the same. If it was just milk there'd be less when she hadn't had a feed recently. Maybe try google images to see what it looks like?

plonko Mon 22-Apr-13 15:03:55

Right, now I've digested being called irresponsible, had a bit of a cry at the possibility of causing mental health problems... Well I knew I might get flamed as soon as I asked for help. I didn't start the bedtime routine last night intending to stress out my six week old baby. He is constantly held and cuddled, I have read no parenting books whatsoever (and never will), and George is only really put down to go to sleep. I watch him and wait for cues, so when he started to look sleepy and I knew it was nearly time for food I dunked him in the bath, gave quick massage then fed and burped him. He fell asleep on me, so down in the cot, but crying began. Repeat. And by now I'd been trying to put him down for almost an hour. I was alone and starving, so I put him down when next asleep, and came downstairs with the monitor on. He started to cry so I waited until he sounded genuinely upset and stayed there with my hand on his chest until his seemed sleepy. When he next wailed I posted here for help.

I'm sorry that my parenting style (which is more like groping in the dark at this stage) is so controversial. I am trying to find ways if doing things that work for us as a family, and I am aware that what works for some will not work for all. I have taken note if everything that has been said in regards to the different parenting styles. I will continue to read with interest but clearly this was the wrong place to come to for some badly needed support.

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