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October babies. Don't get lost

(1000 Posts)
lisbethsopposite Sat 08-Dec-12 01:11:25

Come in come in.

Twobuttonsaway Sun 09-Dec-12 08:03:28

Morning all, Beccus you wanted to know about self settling experience so here goes.

Start with feeding to sleep or walking snd rocking post feed and putting down in Moses basket asleep, I tried hard not to get into the habit of him sleeping on me a lot but did this as necessary! As he got a bit older, around 6 weeks or so, he would stop feeding and have his eyes open, if he looked contented and not windy I would quickly put him down, swaddle, kiss goodnight, leave the room and switch off the light (which was already dim in preparation). If he cried I would go back, try to shush to sleep, then cuddle, then feed as necessary and repeat the process - didn't try any of these steps for ages, just read his cues, no point trying if agitated! He gradually got better and then expected this process which followed bath time every night religiously. Some days were better than others obviously.

Now following same process with DS2, once light is off he often mutters a bit and cries out occasionally but I wait (behind the door) and often he settles down.

Should add I have never found the daytime settling as easy as there is too much distraction - seems to work in the morning when no over tired but afternoon naps tend to be in pram or carrier!

Sorry this is long, but hope its helpful.

Hope you all have a nice Sunday - village Christmas fair and roast chicken for us - .yum smile

WantAnOrange Sun 09-Dec-12 08:50:05

Mickey when DD would breifly accept her bottle she was taking around 2-3oz each feed.

MickeyTheShortOne Sun 09-Dec-12 09:35:29

thanks everyone. i really enjoyed my evening i was only out for 3 and a half hours grin but had a really nice time just having normal adult conversation, that didnt involve the tales of breastfeeding, sleep patterns, nappies.. etc. i had two (yes, TWO!!) very large glasses of wine -- (which DP thanked the lord for as he got a good blow job when he came to bed ha ha ha)--
i didn't realise how much i am missing sex... i originally said DP wasnt coming anywhere near me for a year... now i can't wait to have him!!

sorry everyone TMI. i think i have a hangover lightweight and god, my boobs are fecking uncomfortable!

Lizzietow Sun 09-Dec-12 10:26:17

Just marking spot!! I do read posts every day but not posted in a while. Had some difficulty with colic here, and getting totally confused with which remedies to try or whether its reflux- argh!!

WantAnOrange Sun 09-Dec-12 11:22:22

Arty is driving me insane today. She is un-put-down-able, wont stop crying. I'm waiting for DS to get home so we can go out.

Beccus Sun 09-Dec-12 12:43:03

thx twobuttons, for taking the time to share that. i managed to get her in her cot without a meltdown this morning, which is progress, but she wont drop off in it. will.keep trying :-) wantan, feel your pain, that was us yesterday. horrible! go mickey, u boozy hornbag!! jealous of your normal life activities....i think i am ready for sex, too :-)

Londonmrss Sun 09-Dec-12 12:47:59

isanyone doing tummy time? what are you meant to do?

Beccus Sun 09-Dec-12 15:49:08

when i remember, london. i just pop her on her tummy on her playgym so she is encouraged to look up at her toys. i closely supervise in case of breathing probs and only do it when she is well rested and in a good mood as it is hard work. hv said any firmish surface will do, eg.firm mattress, but padded change mat too soft.

bella2012 Sun 09-Dec-12 17:10:14

massive rant needed then I promise to cheer up and start cheering on other people instead of being a winer.

So...dh has been away since 1pm Friday and was expected back to come with me to a kids bday party at 2pm. Clearly three days away was not enough and he is still not back. So I took them both on my own, he has the car so I walked with ds2 is the sling for the first time. V. Proud of myself. Would have been fine but this party was MASSIVe, like 30+ kids with an entertainer lady who led the kids through all kinds of storytelling activities which all required adult assistance, pulling them on bits of cloth, lifting them over stuff etc. How the hell was I supposed to do that AND breastfeed ds2? As if poor little ds1 wasn't let down enough, he was one of the only ones without a teddy bear because we hadn't been told we had to bring one. Then, to top it all off, ds1 had a huge nose bleed in the middle of the dance floor, just as I was getting a screaming ds2 in the sling. Stop the world and let me off!

Thank God for total strangers helping me out. That is one of the great things about being a Mum-we are all part of this huge team who all know the craic.

So quite frankly I feel like screaming at my nobber of a dh when he finally gets home!

And breathe!

YompingJo Sun 09-Dec-12 17:16:53

I put her on her tummy, she looks puzzled, lifts her head for a bit then gets cross so I pick her up. It's not very advanced here!

Still not feeling great. Good nights, bad nights. On the bad nights (like last night, 2.5 hrs from start of 2am feed until she was finally asleep again), I feel my temper rising and it makes me cry because I feel a need to throw things or slam my hand into things to get rid of the pent up aggression, and it scares me so much. Seeing doctor on Tuesday to talk about this.

Feeding also not great still. I latch her on but she loses the good latch very quickly. She wants to suck when she needs to poo, a dummy or finger just gets her more agitated, but it's painful if she sucks on my boob as she's not caring about her latch, just about wriggling around to poo, which she seems to be finding hard and some days (like today), most of her waking hours seem to be spent trying to pass wind or poo (and failing). She's not constipated, there are plenty of wet nappies. The non-nutritive sucking at the end of a feed is painful too as she doesn't keep her mouth open wide enough so she ends up licking my nipple for ages and it gets sore, but I have the choice of keep trying to correct, which is almost impossible when she is sleepy, or put up with it, or take her off, but then she won't settle. So feeding also makes me cross or teary.

Not having great day. Was meant to be meeting up with nct group for lunch but DH working and I would be the only one there on my own without my DH. Would feel awkward and sad so gave it a miss but feel like that was rubbish of me.

Also seen to be plagued with doubts about whether I am doing things right. Should I wake her up to change her, I read to change every 2.5 hrs but what if she's asleep? She needs to sleep otherwise she gets overtired and is very cross in the evenings, but if I don't wake her will she get nappy rash and be in pain? Is it bad that I put her in bouncy chair today so I could have breakfast in peace? Is it bad that I am swaddling her and putting her in bedside cot at the moment instead of in bed with me, because I need sleep and co-sleeping with her means she and I both wake up more often? I'm putting my needs before hers there, I shouldn't be doing that, plus I've read that ebf newborns need to wake up more frequently, so what if swaddling her means she won't wake up when she needs to? She's been asleep in the sling for 4 hrs, should I wake her up and interact with her? She won't settle to sleep in anything other than a sling in the daytime, have I worn her too much and now she hates sleeping in her carrycot? What if I can't wear her in the sling one day and she won't sleep at all? The doubt and guilt I'm starting to feel about almost everything is making me feel pretty wobbly sad.

I'm glad people are going out of an evening, happy anniversaries to you guys. I feel a long way off that yet. Don't want to introduce bottles of expressed until bf sorted, and feels like that will never happen and that the latch issue will always be there. Maybe she would be fine with a bottle sometimes and it wouldn't make her latch any worse but I feel like I have let her develop a bad latch habit and giving her a bottle may only confuse the issue further. Also, over supply is such an issue for us that I'm frightened to express extra for a bottle in case body thinks it needs to make even more milk can't imagine that is actually possible

Really sorry, I always drag the mood down. Just feel like I could sit and cry for days. It is ask so hard. I will do anything to make all this easier but it is all out of my control and that is so hard to accept and deal with.

bella2012 Sun 09-Dec-12 17:47:24

oh yomping you poor thing. I know it is hard when you desperately want to do the 'right thing'. With ds1 I can remember trying to keep a note of the slightly differing ways of doing things advised by the different midwives so that I could do it the right way when each of them came in. It is my view that within reason there is no right way. Everyone finds their own path and some things work and some things don't. Sometimes we get it wrong, but it isn't the end of the world. As you say, you can't control it and that is the hardest thing to deal with. My advice would be to stop trying to adhere to' the rules'. Certainly don't change nappies by a schedule or things like that. My little ds gets his done as and when I have time, he often has to wait for things and while i love him just as fiercely, he often doesn't get the sort of attentive care I gave ds1, I simply do not have time to analyse what we do and when and I know he isn't suffering for it. I know it impossible to relax in the same way with your first, I used to do all kinds of things like waking baby up to feed after a certain time on the advice of some professional or another which I certainly wouldn't do now. Dont beat yourslef up about considering your own needs sometimes too-t is totally fine not to co-sleep and if it gives you a better night then by all means do it. If I were you I would think about what advice you would give a friend if they were in your shoes. I bet you would tell her that she is doing an amazing job and that she doesn't need to worry.

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 17:53:35


Should I wake her up to change her, I read to change every 2.5 hrs but what if she's asleep? She needs to sleep otherwise she gets overtired and is very cross in the evenings, but if I don't wake her will she get nappy rash and be in pain?

I try and change Jess just before bed, and then she sleeps 10+ hours! Modern nappies are super-absorbent and she shouldn't get nappy rash. Obviously if you are having issues with nappy rash you'd have to consider changing more often, but otherwise... take the sleep, dude!

Is it bad that I put her in bouncy chair today so I could have breakfast in peace?

Bouncy chair has fun dangly toys to look at and learn to reach for, and you get to eat! Brilliant plan, I do the same thing to eat lunch most days.

Is it bad that I am swaddling her and putting her in bedside cot at the moment instead of in bed with me, because I need sleep and co-sleeping with her means she and I both wake up more often? I'm putting my needs before hers there, I shouldn't be doing that, plus I've read that ebf newborns need to wake up more frequently, so what if swaddling her means she won't wake up when she needs to?

I liked the idea of co-sleeping but we only do it from 5am onwards now because baby is in the basket before then. Works well for us, I sleep better too. Many people would say it is BETTER to sleep a baby in the bedside cot, so not sure how you are putting your needs first there? Also not sure how well you're serving her needs when utterly sleepdeprived, you are probably a happier more attentive mum if you've slept, so I think whatever works at this stage! I'm still ebf baby squid and the sleep monster goes 8pm-5am! She catches up in the day. She will wake when she needs to.

She's been asleep in the sling for 4 hrs, should I wake her up and interact with her?

I would take the rest.

She won't settle to sleep in anything other than a sling in the daytime, have I worn her too much and now she hates sleeping in her carrycot?

My baby wouldn't sleep except in my arms/sling initially and then she just changed her mind one day and now sleeps in a basket. I personally think this teaching bad habits thing is a load of rubbish and babies just develop at different stages. In some cultures, they keep babies in slings till they're about 4 years old! No harm done.

What if I can't wear her in the sling one day and she won't sleep at all?

She will.

The doubt and guilt I'm starting to feel about almost everything is making me feel pretty wobbly.

Yeah, you sound like you're about to crumble. Maybe more sleep/rest would help with that some, so it seems like you are doing all the RIGHT things to try and get some of that, despite your doubts. You are obviously a super over-achiever who does ace at everything, and reading your recent posts (not downers, understandable things most of us new mums feel) makes me think you are just... overthinking everything and maybe have read too much about it all? (bet you hear that a lot, right!) I'm no expert and brand new at this, but babies are not textbooks... all babies are different and all mums are too and the things that will work for both of you will vary enormously. It sounds like you are discovering things that work, but then undermining yourself by being unsure if they're "right". But if they're not abusive or stupid, there is no "right" way. I think modern mums are more isolated from extended family than previously and we do doubt ourselves more and try and learn from things like books written by nobbers for cash. Maybe we need to put the books down and trust our instincts more - I mean people brought up babies since the beginning of time without instruction. I know you recently spoke about how shit your dad was and it's pretty understandable you would feel a bit direction-less...

I think the line about your needs vs her needs is a bit unhelpful - do you think you could try and think about things in terms of BOTH of your needs? You're a team, not opponents, right?

I think you are doing brilliantly and Alice is going to love her mum very much.

Forgive the length of this.

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 17:56:41

Huge hugs bella - by the way who said we are not allowed hugs here? BEAR HUG. Sounds like you did masterfully at that party!!

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 18:02:40

I had a strange old time at the Pulp gig - got a text from my mum when just getting on the tram at 7.30pm to say Jess was sound asleep already and had settled herself no problem, so that was awesome - she didn't even have any of the expressed milk, I gave her a big feed before we left. Pulp were incredible and the atmosphere at the gig was amazing and I totally enjoyed the first half of the (long) set. Then I started getting a bit anxious about jess (for no reason at all) and we skipped the encore to make sure we got home for midnight.

She was asleep, of course. No harm done.

Everyone on the tram was slaughtered and I felt very alien and old. I meant to drink at the gig but the queues were enormous and it was only shit overpriced lager so I thought why bother. I felt a bit like an institutionalised prisoner staring wide-eyed at normal life!

So I had a good time but it's obviously going to take a little while to adjust back to "normal" life - not sure it's ever going to be like before obviously, but baby steps!

Londonmrss Sun 09-Dec-12 18:02:46

Christ I don't change to a schedule. sometimes I hear her do a loud poo but for change it till she gets grumpy... sometimes she seems happy to sit in a bag of poo for a while (bad mummy emoticon)
she doesn't have a speck of nappy rash though, in my defense.

squidkid Sun 09-Dec-12 18:10:39

Two questions for everyone:

1. people who felt traumatised or bad about their births - are you feeling any better now?
I have felt a lot better the last month. I think anyone who gives birth in any way at all is an absolute hero and I sometimes watch old episodes of One Born Every MInute and cry at every birth and I bought jess a personalised sleepsuit saying "Born in ---"[area I live in] to try and be proud of myself!

2. What are people doing for Christmas?
We have decided to have it just the three of us and then my whole family (8 adults, 6 kids aged 8, 5, 2 and 2 babies) are coming on the 28th and apparently I have offered to cook for everyone - I am such a mentalist.
On xmas day I'm just going to cook something simple and drink champagne with boyfriend and try and make jess sleep so we can have drunken sex. Would it be bad to express enough milk so I can get proper drunk and drunkenly feed her expressed milk? bad mum


cheesymonster Sun 09-Dec-12 18:10:54

yomping I'm sorry you're feeling so bad. Don't be too hard on yourself. Good luck at the doctors.

hufflepuffle Sun 09-Dec-12 18:16:27

Och Yomping you are having a hard time. I agree with Bella. Try not to think too much about rules. Certainly as far as nappies go I change when needed or if he has had big sleep, whenever up. And no rash yet. Even on the long 7 hr+ sleeps, if not wakened I do not wake him to either eat or change. And he is showing no signs of detriment.

Regarding latch. Lady I saw two weeks ago on hospital when I was at end of tether (again) said they will learn a way to do it and get in to bad habit if you do not teach them again. DS had mouth too small and I could not get him to open. She showed me how to and said even if you hav to take off and relatch 10 times in row, do it. Took me probably a week to re teach him and it has made a significant difference to both how I feel but also how he feeds, he is much more efficient as he can get more per suck!

Perhaps that might help you to encourage her? Is her mouth open wide enough? On utube look up 'asymmetrical latch' if this is a problem.

You are doing great, hopefully somewhere inside you can tell yourself that. I am having a good week, powered however by a more content baby and better sleep. This is hard work, even more so when feeling crap. Very glad you are seeing GP on Tuesday.

Please please take care. Try and slow down, forget about the rules and what everyone else doing. Follow DDs lead and I am sure things will look brighter soon.

Sorry if I sound annoying. As I say, few good days, but they do help and you will have more of them.

X x x

bella2012 Sun 09-Dec-12 18:26:40

cracking reply there squid, well done. I hope that has helped you a bit yomping.

Glad you enjoyed pulp squid and I so so understand the strange anxious feeling you get when you are away from them sometimes. V. Jealous of your christmas plans! Sounds awesome-def get on the champers!!

hufflepuffle Sun 09-Dec-12 19:00:20

Well said Squid . Glad you got out and had a great time! Bella sorry you had such a shite time! As ever, toddler plus baby...... How????? Bloody wonderful mummy xx

Elpis thanks for feeding cue tips the other day. Hav def been more aware since but often I hav just not the total attention to know before the wailing starts! But getting better!

Beccus Sun 09-Dec-12 19:14:02

oh yomping :-( hugs, hugs and more illegal hugs for u. i'm so pleased u r seeing gp- please mention the guilt and self doubt as well as the anxiety and anger u feel. it's just not like u to be saying things like your posts r always negative. u r very supportive of others and post things like hospital bag lists that u kindly share with us and start new threads off.

changing- i do before any activity that i am hopeful will make her sleep, ie. feeding, sling or pram...or if i hear/smell something offensive.

waking to interact- would not wake her to change/interact- as u say, they need their sleep. i would only wake to feed.

swaddling- would be less concerned about needing to be able to wake up easily- important for newborns who need regular feeding, but alice must be at least 7 weeks, so more robust and bigger tummy than new born.

doing what u can so u can get some sleep is fine. none of us can do the best by our babies if we r sleep deprived.

latching- same here- goes to pot the longer she is feeding and the more tired she point taking her off as she is too drowsy to relatch...i dont find it that uncomfortable so i put up with it in an effort to try and tank her up so she will sleep longer.

squid, yes, far less traumatised by birth...have told (bored) anyone and everyone who will listen about it.
bella, that party sounds awful. i hope your dh comes home with a bunch of flowers or does something special for u....i knew what u meant in your other post about wanting to go.but at the same time knowing u.couldnt hack it.

is anyone else struggling to concentrate? i really struggle to pay attention to what ppl r saying/movies...

hufflepuffle Sun 09-Dec-12 20:03:44

This link is v helpful for anyone losing latch. Obviously if this is not a discomfort for you, no worries, but as the owner of cracked nipples it is a worry for me!!

The part 3. of first answer to the posters question is the instruction I was given at hospital recently. Instead of 'sandwich' though, keep boob firm, use thumb in line with nose, outside areola to make nipple push up higher. Baby then has to stretch to get nipple and this makes mouth much wider. Quickly attach baby to boob when widest and chin and lower lip touching lower side.

This made big difference to me. Am sure u are all totally way better at 6-10 weeks anyhow!!!!!!!!!!!

Orenishii Sun 09-Dec-12 20:06:52

Hi all smile

Dipping in and out while I very, very impressed with all of you going out of an evening.

I remain singularly unable to decide about little Squincy with regards to sleep. I tend towards a feed on demand approach and find it psychologically easier to stay up until his 12/12.30/1am feed than be woken up. So he tends to stay downstairs with us, snoozing in my arms, on the seat next to me or in the basket and I feed/change/wind as needed. Then I take him up to bed with at 12am for the "last" feed of the night....sometimes he sleeps through to 5.30/6am, sometimes even 8.30! Other times he wakes up at 3 or 4 and then again at 8 ish so TBH, I can totally cope with this sleeping and we have a sort of routine in terms of bath/massage/feed/story.

It's bfing I find hard - it's relentless. Sometimes, in my worst moments, when DH has him and Squincy is shouting and angry and DH hands him to me saying "He's hungry, he wants to eat" - I confess I think it's just because it's easier for DH to default to that, that it's easier to hand him to me to stick on my breast than go through the array of other things it might be. I also CANNOT get comfortable and just hunch over him - not good!

Post baby body - too depressing for words. I went shopping for jeans yesterday because pre-Squincy jeans don't fit and maternity jeans fall down. God jeans shopping was traumatic enough before! Luckily DH is a personal trainer and specialises in rehabilitation of form, and my body is a complete wreck now...I used to do fucking parkour before, for god's sake! Now I struggle to stand up from a sitting position sad

I have vague hopes this baby led approach will work out eventually because I just panic when I read some of the posts from you lovely ladies, you sound so accomplished with long sleeps and routines and things!

OctoberOctober Sun 09-Dec-12 20:20:35

yomping as someone else said, try not to worry too much and go with your instinct on some things. I found that I was taking so much conflicting advice that I dodn't know what I was doing or even trying to achieve by over researching everything and I was driving myself mad.

smiley hope you had a good anniversary too! It was lovely just having some time with me and dp out of the house. And even better to get some time in the bedroom grin

DS actually had his first night in his cot in his room rather than Moses basket in our room. Not planned, mil put him to sleep in there and then it seemed pointless to wake him when we got back - and he slept the longest ever til 5.30! We also had more restful time without him thrashing about and snuffling. Now not sure whether to put him in there from now on, not really mentally prepared for him 'leaving us' but it worked well for all of us last night. Anyone else moved them into own rooms?

Orenishii Sun 09-Dec-12 20:30:09

Yomping if it analogy with regards to putting your needs before baby yomping: there's a reason on planes the instructions for the oxygen masks are for parents to put them on themselves first and then tend to their children. How are they supposed to care for their children and ensure their survival if they have just passed out from lack of oxygen?

Believe me - I am very baby led. Very, very "babies know all sorts of stuff", very attachment theory in my approach. Squincy and I are symbiotic at the moment, and I would never ever judge another parent but the CIO/controlled crying etc etc approach is something I would never do...but even I believe and understand that Squincy needs me to be healthy to care for him, to continue to produce milk for him, to make the right decisions for him. And all of those things - all the things that ensure his needs are met - require me to my needs first: eat well, sleep as well as I can, get my stress levels down my relaxing when I can.

It's just logic - it's not said just to make you feel better smile I have my doubts about my parenting, many moments of a drop in confidence, many tears shed but this I do not doubt smile So please, believe and know your baby needs you to be healthy too so it's not a case of you not meeting her needs - you are doing so as part of a whole when you look after yourself first.

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