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October 2012 babies part 2: winding, yawning and grizzling, and first smiles?

(1000 Posts)
YompingJo Tue 13-Nov-12 05:20:10

Part 2: in which our babies learn to sleep through the night and make us tea in the morning <hopeful face>

smileyhappymummy Sat 17-Nov-12 18:52:27

Interestingly I think a lot of the data on BF as contraception is from less developed countries so perhaps isn't directly applicable to women in the uk? Personally it isn't a method I'd rely on if I really didn't want to get pregnant, maybe to space pregnancies but only if a positive pregnancy test would actually be ok, perhaps just sooner than planned.
beeble you have made me chuckle!
Today's achievement for me was taking both kids to a birthday party at a soft play centre and managing to brastfed there whilst simultaneously maintaining small talk with other reception / year 1 mums!

hufflepuffle Sat 17-Nov-12 19:49:14

Oh Beeble! That has made me laugh!!! Thought mine was funny today as stressful shop in town and screeching baby being fed by daddy brought it on (anyone elses bloody painful?? Is everything I do to do with breasts bloody painful??!) But the howling dog has cracked me up!!!

My rash is disappearing and my boobs are feeling better by the hour, especially the hideously sore one. I feel better than I have in weeks. I could cry with relief. Any expressing doubters, do not delay!!

Can I also agree that nearly all stresses of past month have been either directly or indirectly related to BF. yes, tired, crying bubba, the unknown etc is tough, but BF had been so major. I am so cross at all antenatal care which lovingly tells us how wonderful and natural it is. If they were more helpful and truthful it would not hav come as such a shock. Would still hav done it but would not hav been so stressed about how hard it had been. Totally understand the change to FF for many. Glad to start to get over current hurdle, could I deal with another???

I'd like a glass of vino too but I'm a total light weight and knowing my luck little dude will break his 5hr+ sleeping habit and I'd wake up feeling groggy as hell. Nope, not healthy enough yet!

Angelico Sat 17-Nov-12 23:15:21

Right on for another breast-feeding related rant! Same fucking ducts have blocked again tonight - the ones from mastitis time. They are fucking agony. I am teetering on the brink of telling breast-feeding to fuck off to the far side of fuck and take my agonising ducts there too. Going to give it to Monday and if not away have to go back to GP to check if anything more sinister. Had a slightly dodgy lump removed from same breast a few years ago and get annual mammogram (although by a cruel twist of fate this year was supposed to be my last one). Anyway apparently recurrent blocked ducts in same place can (very rarely) be a sign of something wicked so with my history it will need investigated.

I am so pissed off sad Lovely day, lovely evening - until about 2 hours ago. Just felt lumps appearing and heart sank. Have had hot bath, fed, expressed, massaged and combed boob and taken a lecithin capsule and Ibuprofen. I can do no more sad

At least Smiley and Beeble made me smile through the agony.

hufflepuffle Sun 18-Nov-12 00:02:53

Grrrrrrrr. Angelico you hav every right to be totally and utterly fucking fucked off. Totally totally shite. No words of wisdom for you, just piles of sympathy.

Just given dude an entire ff to try to help in creating a store of expressed milk. Only able to express half that and keeping it for tnrw as hungry monster needs at least 6oz. . Due to totally Nobberish behaviour we ended up throwing 100ml expressed out earlier and totally mucked up good days work! Alarm set for stupid o clock to express again and hope that one ff does not muck up my production or dude's digestion!! Small hurdle, back on track soon.

Hope everyone well and feeling vaguely like a Saturday night!


Beccus Sun 18-Nov-12 01:00:33

awful pm yesterday, up at 1430 and unable to settle until 2130.....surely nit good for 3 werk old to be up 7 hrs on the trot. fed her a million times, got her off in the sling obly for her to wake up in cot, took her for walk; got her off in pram only for her to wake up again. massive meltdown by me at thia point as i was desperate for sleep ( around 19), and thank god dp took her. was in some ways pleased he saw how much hard work she can be, when u r trying to settle her on your own. he eventually got her off in her cot with hoover on for 20 min. here's hoping for a better nite

Cherrychopsticks Sun 18-Nov-12 01:27:49

Squid, I had a glass of champagne the other day and a small red wine last night. I heard that a glass here and there was fine.
I don't know that I'll bother again though, not because of baby worries, but because I ended up with a headache both times. Last night's was a corker, and combined with a very unsettled baby - not fun. Never was a regular drinker, and like Huffle, a bit of a light weight, so probably not used to it anymore.

That was a great link, thanks Springer.

I'd also like to join the "breast feeding is the root of all evil" group too, please.
I've been lucky in that DS took to it straight away, I've had no supply problems, and we got lots of help at the hospital. But, he feeds so much and so irregularly that I couldn't safely leave him with someone else for more than an hour. Very difficult to do anything in an hour, and hard to get to sleep in that time. I have times when it's lovely, and comfortable and peaceful but after a feeding frenzy my nipples are agony and he pulls them around and chews on them like some kind of dog toy.
And that knowledge - in the middle of the night, dog-tired, excruciating nipples, screaming baby, when you just want it all to be over - that the only thing you can do is breast feed again. Relentless.
In case you can't tell, we've had are having a couple of very bad days/nights here recently! grin

I can't settle him either, LondonMrs. I'm sure it's the milkiness - I'm just one big boob to him. DH isn't great at it, but much better than me. In a couple of weeks I'll start expressing a bit so I can have a break.

grin at howling dog let-down Beeble, you're obviously a very good mother! wink

Glad you're starting to feel better now, Huffle.

Angelico, so sorry about all your boob issues. It's hard enough without all that to deal with. It would be completely understandable and totally reasonable, if you decided to switch to formula. I really hope it's not a sign of something more serious. Hopefully, with more investigation they can figure out why it keeps happening and do something about it.

Cherrychopsticks Sun 18-Nov-12 01:46:12

Our news - persevered with the Moby yesterday (thanks for great advice Wooly and Crazy) and it kind of worked!! Ignored the initial crying, did some hovering (my house has never been so clean!), and Baby reluctantly fell fast asleep. Still need practice as it wasn't tight enough and he could have been higher, but all in all felt very safe and comfy. loads of crumbs on baby when eating lunch

DH is taking his last work test as we speak, so afterwards we'll finally be able to do some nice stuff as a family. Can't wait as it gets a bit lonely and overwhelming doing everything alone. He'll still be working his ridiculous hours, but at least we can do something at the weekends.

Smorgs, I also hate our car seat - it looks so uncomfortable! It's some super fancy thing that is, of course, suitable from birth but I think it's far too upright and bent. The straps are huge. I'm sure it wouldn't keep DS safe in a crash (but then I wonder what would really) and I have to sit next to him when he's in it because I worry about his breathing.

Beccus, welcome back! That sounds like a shit night, hopefully you're in for a better day and can get some rest. thanks

Oh, quick Moby question...I get quite hot when wearing, so what sort of clothes would baby need to wear if outside in it in Winter?

And finally, DS is wearing a hooded romper today! grin Thanks for the reassurance, I was being a dick. Was thinking about the comfort of it when they lie down, but also have a thing about breathing/suffocation...

Sleep well.

squidkid Sun 18-Nov-12 05:58:22

The morning's sleep report: 10.30pm to 5.30am - wow! I feel 10 years younger!

squidkid Sun 18-Nov-12 06:53:40

And now is asleep again!! After "self-soothing" in basket!! shock I've had over 8 hours sleep and don't know what to do with myself... cup of tea and leisurely breakfast I think...

Thanks so much for contraception lowdown smiley - will prob go for mirena as well but might just use condoms for a while
Midwife friend told me yesterday exclusively breastfeeding means no expressing&feeding so I'll be more careful - the thought of being pregnant right now!!!
Sympathies for all the BF woes, why is it so bloody hard!?

Woolybob Sun 18-Nov-12 07:33:36

Congratulations squid nice to know there may be light at at the end of the tunnel. We got 4 hours then only 30 min feed before another 3 hours which is much more like it.

BF - even when you factor out the pain, blocked ducts, mastitis, thrush and failure to gain weigh (phew!) I don't think I realised the way it takes over your life. Feel like that's virtually all I've done since she was born and there's no way anyone can do it for you. Would love to express enough milk for DH to take her all night one night but even if I did boobs would explode!

Saw bf described somewhere as the most selfless act one human being can do for another - very true!

londonlivvy Sun 18-Nov-12 07:47:07

Big moan alert: .I had been looking forward to the weekend, but frankly I think it is easier when DF is not here. I feel a bit resentful that a) his life isn't over and b) he doesn't understand that mine is. So yesterday moning when she wouldn't settle I had to take her for (yet another) walk. He didn't volunteer to do it so I could sleep. I thought I'd give him a break so he could study and so didn't ask. Only to find on return that he had just been playing a game on his phone.

He then wanted us to do something together as a family. Ie go out for lunch or supper. And whilst I agree with the concept, and want to put mojo into our couple, I'm ffffing exhausted and want to sleep at lunchtimes. Well, not just lunchtimes, i'd happily sleep any chance I get. He sleeps in a separate bedroom as he cant do busy job and uni on no sleep. Anyway, I agreed to lunch out, for the sake of our relationship. And DD, despite normally settling well at lunchtimes, wasn't having it. Took me 30 mins of picking up, putting down, patting and shushing to get her off. Then for her afternoon nap, it took me 45 mins again to get her off and then when there was an hour when I could have gone to bed, (formula and bath) DF said he wasn't confident in the bath withou me. I said well I hadn't been confident on Monday and I was sure he would work it out. He wanted me there. So no nap. And then bedtime when normally after last milk she is unconscious by 630, she whinged and screamed and I went through umpteen rounds of pick up put down until she finally slept at 8. When I went to bed. Through the night (when again, nirmally she goes down fine) it has taken 40 mins of calming to get her to sleep after each feed. So even less sleep for me.

Amongst all of that, I cooked supper. This morning I find he didn't do the bloody washing up. I am not impressed. His daughter has had me awake since five, again, and my back is killing me and he couldn't be arsed to wash up two pots and a sieve? Not cool. I don't have a mat nurse lined up for next week at all (my lovely one is away) and I feel like I can't cope with many more days/ nights like that.

So to all of you whose OH is better at soothing than you, to be honest that seems ace to me.

Beeble, the dog story is brill. Very funny.

Angelico so sorry to hear about the blocked ducts again. Rubbish.

Squid. 8 hours. Wow. This is fab. You must be delighted. I hope my DD masters this soon,

Re the moby wrap, I can't have it right as she won't sleep in it. It also hurt my back. I have a bjorn baby carrier but I think she is too small for that.

Cherry hope your DH last work test goes ok.

Huffle all that expressing and feeding sounds like hard work. Hugs.

Beccus that sounds like a tough day. Hope the night was better.

Intrigued re this breastfeeding as contraception gig. Seems a little dangerous to me. The thought of going through first trimester exhaustion with a newborn doesn't bear thinking about. Though am nowhere near up for a shag right now anyway. I would need a lot more healing and a LOT more sleep.

YompingJo Sun 18-Nov-12 09:19:27

Livvy that sucks about your DH. I think men often need a little help to see how their actions can come across! It also sounds like maybe you felt like you had started to see some order in the chaos, and that got upset this weekend and that has been unsettling for you - needing to see order in chaos and to feel like you have some semblance of control may be part of pnd or maybe just to do with being a control freak (speaking as a fully paid up, card carrying control freak myself), but I got told off for this by a midwife, who told me "she's a newborn. There is no order here, it's meant to be chaos, until she finds her own patterns. Just because she does something one way, or at one time today does not mean she will do the same tomorrow, the next day, or ever again. Or she might. But it won't be a pattern!" That told me! But I can see she was right.

I keep telling myself that DH and I are a team, and he needs to feel that I value him, and hard as it might be for me to accept, he needs breaks too. Sometimes I wish he was a bit more proactive, but if I ask him to do something for me, he will do it straight away - sometimes he just doesn't think of the things he could do to help, is your DH the same? Maybe talking to him about how you have felt would help, could be that he just hasn't quite realised how shout you've been feeling as he has been so busy. From things you have said here in the past it sounds like you and he have a really strong relationship so I'm sure you will be able to talk thus through together. Sending you big hugs and hoping you have a better day today.

YompingJo Sun 18-Nov-12 09:21:10

squid, yay for sleep. Can you come and teach Alice?

woolybob, meant to say that your maths to work out when baby would move out made me chuckle!

Cherrychopsticks Sun 18-Nov-12 09:29:08

Livvy, that sounds rubbish, I'm really sorry. I would have had right go about the washing up particularly angry but I know when you have no energy you don't want to be spelling things out for him. confused
At least now he has no excuse not to do the bath by himself in the future.
I had a bit of a rant the other day because DH fell asleep on the sofa and didn't wake up to DS screaming (a few feet away) while I was outside hanging washing! Why was I even hanging the washing?! Wish I could fall asleep on the sofa, oblivious to all else envy
DH can settle better but still not to sleep, but he's never here and also been sleeping in the spare room due to busy work and study, so totally sympathise.
Wish I could help you in real life. brew

Awesome sleep Squid!

WantAnOrange Sun 18-Nov-12 09:32:59

Londonlivvy I would be very tempted to go out for a couple of hours and leave them to it!

Dont ask, tell. "I need a few hours sleep, it's your turn". Hand her over and go to bed, dont give in if he says he can't do it, of course he can! You had to learn by doing now so does he.

(I know this is being horribly sexest and not true of all men but) Men can be very good at 'learned helplessness'. He is capable, he can do it, he is equally responsable for her care. I think that every time we step in and rescue them (I do this all the time for DH!) we reinforce the idea that we are better at parenting than them but we are not, we have just had more practise.

It's ok to say no to lunches and going out btw, I'm sure he loves you and will understand.

Angelico Just tell yourself that you will do ONE more feed and decide each one as it comes. This really helped me get through the first few weeks. I knew that if I wanted I could give formula at the next feed, I'll do this one more....

We had the best night yet last night. She fed at 11:30 then woke briefly at some point in the early hours for a five minute top up, then slept until 5:30, and it was me who woke her up then because I was so uncomfortable sandwitched between DD and DH.

We are getting the most beautiful smiles now, well DH is anyway hmm.

Woolybob Sun 18-Nov-12 10:27:52

Oh dear livvy hope you didn't do the washing up. My DH is very good admittedly but he doesn't really get how much of a prisoner to the baby you can become. wantan is right you just need to tell him that you need sleep and his job is to get you some.

Having said that I was annoyed at first with DH being all gung ho and dragging us out everywhere (poor Emily's been to B+Q 4 times since birth) but I look back now and am sneakily glad as it gave me a lot more confidence to take her out myself in the week, we try and go somewhere everyday and I think it helps me stay sane. So next time may be better!

I had a major freak out at DH yesterday as he was looking at speaker cables (yes in B+Q again) to wall mount his hifi speakers and I was just thinking this is just another thing for you to do to not spend time with her but of course that isn't true, it's not very interesting for him to sit and watch me bf for an hour! I keep reminding myself of all the smiles and exciting things he's going to miss being at work (all the more reason to do the exciting things he can like her bath...)

hufflepuffle Sun 18-Nov-12 11:14:29

Apple Strudel Muller Rice, slightly warmed. Very highly recommended easy snack peeps. Mmmmmm

crazypaving Sun 18-Nov-12 11:40:35

oh livvy that's the last thing you need! Agree with all the others - you're going to have to be explicit and communicate with him very clearly.

squid envy of your sleep. We didn't get a night like that with DS1 until he was 14 months old!!!

DS2's been a bit unsettled lately. He generally poos once every few days, but this week he didn't do one between monday and saturday shock Then last night had an epic clear-out. loud, noisy poo, change huge nappy and relax. One hour later, repeat. THREE TIMES!!! And another at 7am! Blimey.

Gotta run

Angelico Sun 18-Nov-12 13:57:49

Thanks for boob sympathy. It's not totally away but a good bit better - tackling it fast and aggressively seems to help and taking shitloads of painkillers. livvy sounds like your DH needs to get a grip tbh - can you pick a time when you aren't shattered and emotional and just tell him honestly that you need more practical support from him? Naps can save you when he is there. Squid hurrah for self-soothing bean and long sleep and ditto Wantan grin Feels magic when it happens! grin

Bean just puked on hand. Hurrah hmm lol

lisbethsopposite Sun 18-Nov-12 14:36:28

I read, mean to post - get called away and when I come back there are about 20 more posts and the same thing happens again!!

Cherry I think those babygros with hoods are sometimes called pram suits. I treat them like a light jacket - mainly for outdoor but I think I did let DS sleep in it a few nights back.

LMrs re other people settling your baby easily. I am in the opposite place. We have little contact with family and DH gives up quickly so it is usually down to me. IMO grannies are great at settling babies, they seem to have the 'touch' and if your DH is good too.. rejoice. Your baby LOVES you, god only knows what they are thinking when you pich baby up. Maybe it is something like ' oh there she is, that WONDERFUL lady. I am so excited...'

Squid agree on the treat a day - this will be our longest single time off work.

Zara is there a branch of Cuidiu near you - they might give you practical advice on your moby.

Plankton [Awe emoticon]
Hufflep [awe emoticon] you are a fighter.
I know you have an eye on your business but are you getting a rest every day? and a treat?
I have expressed very little this time as having had mastitis with DS1 I am wary/scared of it, but a very easy way to keep your kit sterilised is to wash as normal - then don't dry but throw into a 5L bucket/bowl/large saucepan of milton water (think tab dissolves in 5L of water). After 15 mins stuff is sterile, but just leave it there til you need again. Same water will keep for 2 days as you drop in and remove items (I used a long handled plastic spoon). Then you can use directly or rinse under tap to remove milton (which is smelly - like a swimming pool)
Expressing and bottle feeding is a nightmare (shudder)

Yomping smile at the 'fix-it' mentality. My DH has that and wanted to take our DS to GP 2 year ago to find out why he was crying/what was wrong.

Smorgs I think of 3 hours too - if that can be called a routine.
I also look at other mums in supermarket to see how they are managing although I hate when I see a beautifully behaved 2 yr old in the supermarket as mine is a complete wrecker.

Squid BF as contraceptive - I can't imagine it being 98% effective, and especially not for a woman who got pregnant within 5 mins of trying. grin
I would actually guess the exhaustion is a big factor in the contraception but as you are back in business... ('Irish twins' springs to mind)
Mirena seems to be the one most of my friends have used.

CrazyP Squid self settling - I don't want to read that. The nicest moment of my day is in bed with DS at the end of his last feed and we curl up to sleep together. His little face.... I adore cuddling my contented baby, DS1 at 2 years gives a 3 second hug now and then, babies will not be addicted to touch - they will walk and run and only need us to pick them up, for now, I need the touch/soothing.

Angelico sympathy on the blocked ducts. I never had them and you are following all the advice I have heard. sOME people seem to be prone to them. Do you get blebs? A girl at my LLL group had to get one out using a pin and I had heard of this before. BTW BF is linked with a decreased incidence of breast cancer - a factor that I like as I was on loads of hormonal meds with IVF.

Cherry poor you and the sore nips - I remember what you are describing but it is much easier on number 2, and they do toughen. You might even be over the worst now... hopefully.

LLivvy I feel for you. I agree with Wantan advice. Try to get DP to do some bit with baby. This zone of complete exhaustion that you are in now - this is the worst. You will look back and see that. You are great for persevering and giving your best. You have been on here regularly and the minute you get the least break you are back to your positive self. Any of us (the human race) are wretched on 2-3 hrs sleep. This will pass.
I really want to send you a virtual hug thanks ((()))

Wollybob my DH thinks babies hve no personality and are only interesting at 6 months. They do not bond like mothers. Perhaps it is as well or it would be worse that a MIL, as they live with you. Imagine the rows if dads wanted to hold the baby all the time!! - Perhaps it is too hard to imagine grin

YompingJo Sun 18-Nov-12 14:39:46

Livvy, I have been feeling crosser and crosser with your DH as the day has gone on! Ignore that bollocks I wrote and give him a good talking to! Not being sure how to help (as my DH sometimes isn't) is one thing, but you doing the walking and soothing, then not getting naps, then getting supper then getting bath is just nobbishness on his part! Throw a feeding bottle or two at his head and tell him, from me, to man up!

YompingJo Sun 18-Nov-12 16:23:36

Dear wise people of this thread,

Someone has taken my grizzly baby, who takes ages to feed then ages to settle and often screams on and off for hours, and swapped her for an identical looking one who feeds for a bit then drifts straight off to sleep for 2 to 3 hours, and has been doing that since this morning. We are onto our third sleep of the day.

Although this is completely freaking me out lovely, it is not "normal" behavior for her. Should I be concerned?

crazypaving Sun 18-Nov-12 16:37:20

Yomping phases can be good as well as bad! Just enjoy!

squidkid Sun 18-Nov-12 17:08:23

my sister (10 days overdue and very fed up) is at the hospital, in labour!!! yay!!! fingers crossed for her she had a horrible birth last time and is hoping for a vbac

should have a new niece/nephew by the morning!

londonlivvy Sun 18-Nov-12 18:09:45

I feel a bit mean and disloyal to have moaned about DF. He does do lots of nappies and winding and he did do the washing up this morning! I think he lacks a bit of confidence re sole charge. He did also take the baby monitor this lunchtime so I could sleep without being disturbed by her incredibly noisy orc impressions (i forget which one of you used that description but it is so apt). It was his suggestion.

So I think with better communication from me about what I'd like from him, I think we'll be in a better place. He is a very adoring dad and generally a v supportive partner, but work plus uni us making him shattered.

Will respond to everyone later - thank you for encouragement and support, as. Ever.

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