Why do working class vote for Torries?

[ArvidsDaddy]

Apologies for being provocative. If what it said in the news is to be believed, I am puzzled by why the traditional Labour voters in the North (and South) would vote for the Torries? It is a bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas, both in the election and the Brexit vote. Lack of education? Lack of self-confidence? Lack of empathy?

[user1497207191]

Lots of "working class" actually have high aspirations and want to better themselves - they want a society where they are supported to get promotions, start a business, get better qualifications, etc. Your typical self employed tradesmen, i.e. gas fitter, joiner, etc will be a Tory voter despite being working class.

What many don't want is a life on hand-outs and/or state dependency which seems to be the typical Labour supporter on the dole, disabled or working in the public sector.

Labour's policy of punishing the rich through tax rises is the opposite of nurturing aspiration.

[AuntGinny]

When you have a political system where neither party is for the working classes then they'll vote for the best fit they can find. So those with more right wing opinions vote for the Tory's and those with more left wing opinions vote for Labour, but another substantial group do not bother vote knowing that neither party represents their interests. It is not the people who do vote that really decide the out come, it is those that abstain. If either party managed to get those that abstain to vote for them, they would win, because more people abstain in general than vote for one particular party.

[GotAnyGrapes17]

By stereotype I should be a labour voter. Former young single parent, working class. Annual income just under 25k a year. Work in social/public sector. I've used tax credits and housing benefit.

But, I have worked very hard and now have a secure, stable job with plenty of opportunities and am totally self sufficient. I want my taxes to provide opportunities for people like my self. I want my child to grow up knowing that you only get what you work for, and to then work for it.

I don't want my taxes to play any part in encouraging an entitled, reliant on benefits generation.

The pot only runs so deep, and I'd rather backing and support be given to make forward movement and self development, not stagnant living generation after generation.

[MrsCatBasket]

GotAnyGrapes17 AWESOME post! very well put

[fromthefloorboardsup]

@GotAnyGrapes17 What if you're unable to work?

[BeardedMum]

How do taxes provide these opportunities out of interest?

[fromthefloorboardsup]

To answer the OP, I think it's misguided aspiration combined with a lack of education or critical thinking skills so many people believe what they've been told. (I'm thinking predominately of my family here as an example). Unfortunately trickle down economics doesn't work so people hoping that voting Tory will improve their lives often end up losing out. You'll get the occasional person it's worked well for, same as the grammar school argument, but overall it won't help them. It's interesting to listen to people who used to vote Tory but have discovered the realities of what that means and changed their minds.

[Velveteenfruitbowl]

The working class know that they will be the first hit and worst hit by the ensuing economic crisis that a far left government would cause. You don’t have to be a genius or even well educated to know that the working class always end up on the bottom. It follows that if those at the top are worried, those at the bottom should be more worried.

[GotAnyGrapes17]

@fromthefloorboardsup then you legitimately require and are entitled to support from the state. I struggle to see how any one would think differently.

[MustardScreams]

Jesus christ the disgusting answers here about people claiming benefits. Benefit fraud is a tiny percentage of the claims, most are ‘working poor’. You know, they people that work all hours they can and still have to visit food banks in their millions. Labour isn’t about taking off the rich to give to the poor so they don’t have to work, it’s about creating opportunities that wouldn’t necessarily be available, and giving people that have had a shit start in life a chance to be what they want to be.

Heartless wankers the lot of you. It doesn’t cost a single thing to not sneer at people and just be kind.

[fromthefloorboardsup]

@GotAnyGrapes17 How does that fit with "only getting what you work for" and taxes only helping people like you then?

[MustardScreams]

I know I’m sneering and being unkind in my last sentence, but I’m just so sick of these fucking stereotypes trotted out by the middle classes.

[ArvidsDaddy]

I see many truths in the facts and analyses in the replies, and understand the aspirations of working class. However, Tories' policies would work against any aspirations for soical mobility. They just want to keep working class working class. They offer superfacial benefits that buy votes, but when it is down to real opportunities and real money, the working people are kept out. A very good example is the university fees. It is singly the most important mechanism for social mobility and equality. Raising the fees (which you don't actually need to pay upfront) would only act as a deterrent to the less well-off. Meanwhile, there are no opportunities for apprentceships or other alternatives. When you are educated, you know your potential and your strive for it. That is not what Tories want, not for others but only themselves. They want exclude the working class from the decision making process, encouraging the working class to blame others (e.g. EU, immigrants, the ill, the old, the weak, the poor, the young) for the misfortune which really originates from the disparity in the wealth distribution and the opportunity distribution - most notabley via education.

[fromthefloorboardsup]

I wonder if there's also an element of snobbery through fear in a way. Sort of "if I vote Tory I'm better than my neighbours who vote Labour and are poor etc. If I vote Tory I can't possibly be like them." If that makes sense!

[Onedaymyluckwillchange]

Because many 'working classes' live a typically middle class lifestyle. Just because you didn't go to university or speak the Queens English, many tradespeople for example are doing very well for themselves financially. The view of traditional working class jobs is actually very outdated. A builder can far out earn an accountant for example.

[fromthefloorboardsup]

I don't think being rich or well off automatically means you'd be a Tory voter! Plenty of rich socialists around, they just realise they've been lucky and want to share that with others who have had different chances in life

[GotAnyGrapes17]

@fromthefloorboardsup apologies. I probably should have clarified that people that are too disabled to work of course deserve support. I wouldn't want to live in a country that thought otherwise.

But, there is a huge problem with generations being brought up in benefit reliant families, going to schools where the majority their peers are being raised in benefit reliant families and living on estates where people that go to work are in the minority. This is a cycle that desperately needs to be broken.

Believe me, I would not be saying this if I did not have first hand experience. I work in a sector where I deal with some of the most deprived geographical areas and families. You would that this would encourage me to lean to the left, but I can honestly say it makes you more right wing thinking.

I speak to young women everyday, who are in a similar position to what I was. And I genuinely like a lot of them. Unfortunately the difference it's, they often continue to make poor life choices over and over again. Looking at short term solutions instead of investing their time in education, work experience and engaging with organisations that provide help in regards to budgeting, parenting skills, CV writing, sustaining tenancies etc.

There is a large amount of the population who have some sort of barrier against any kind of authoritative body, and this is created by years of benefit reliance. And living a reasonably comfy life on benefits. Maybe be not the last few years, but certainly in the past. In my mind benefits should only be a long term solution if you are genuinely too disabled and unable to work. Anything else should be viewed as a stop gap whilst you try to get over unforeseen circumstances.

A labour government (which at this time could well be a socialist government) does very little to increase incentive to become self reliant.

[ArvidsDaddy]

@posterOnedaymyluckwillchange I agree. But I guess the point here is not the definition of the working class or the middle class. Perhaps the working people is a better term. Despite what you say, it puzzles me why such working people with middle class financial capacities would vote for a party that perpetuates a system lacking in empathy and encouraging meanness.

[FourQuarters]

A combination of political illiteracy and the kind of ‘I’m all right, Jack’ thinking @GotAnyGrapes17 demonstrates above.

[fromthefloorboardsup]

And no I'm not saying wealth is just luck, of course people work hard for it, but there's a lot of privilege and chance involved e.g. people you meet, which uni you went to etc. For example, JK Rowling wrote a very good series of novels but it was partly chance that someone published them. Plenty of very good novels will go unpublished or plenty of very good authors won't have the confidence to try and publish. Doesn't mean JK didn't work hard but I'm sure she'd recognise she's also been lucky and she does work to help those who haven't been so lucky (because she's had it hard too)

[Bluntness100]

Lack of self-confidence? Lack of empathy?

How offensive. Being working class does not mean people lack e othag or self confidence, if anyone chooses to not vote labour it shows many things, that they have self belief, understand the damage the labour policies will do, oppose anti Semitisim and many many other things.

All of them positive. People don't have to vote labour simoly because they are working class. Class doesn't dictate education or intelligence and if they aren't voting for them, then they are displaying both.

[TowelNumber42]

why the traditional Labour voters in the North (and South) would vote for the Torries?
...
Lack of education? Lack of self-confidence? Lack of empathy

Sick of Labour's Momentum's arrogance perhaps? Right here you have suggested that disagreement with Labour policy, is probably down to someone being a thickie, a wet blanket or a psychopath. How about maybe some intelligent thoughtful people who happen to be Northerners have thought about the proposed policies, have spotted flaws in them and decided to make their own choice? Just a thought.

[otterturk]

"Torries"

[Itsjeremycorbynsfault]

Got Any Grapes - you yourself said you received benefits whilst in work etc. You make no sense. Do you not believe that you benefited from benefits when you were struggling. What government was in power when you received your tax credits? But now that you have a better job, benefit claimants are to be sneered at?